NOTES OF DECEMBER 14, 2015 RYE BOARD OF SELECTMEN MEETING
Final Revision D – Provided by the Rye Civic League
Editor’s
note: For ease in finding particular
sections using the archived video and audio on the Town website, the elapsed
time is indicated. Use the slider and
the elapsed time indicated at the bottom of the video window to fast forward to
the desired section. Videos on the Town website may currently be accessed
at www.town.rye.nh.us by clicking on
“Town Hall Streaming” at the bottom left of the screen. Follow the link for “Town Hall Live
Streaming,” then find the meeting by date under “Previous.”
The video starts
at 7:09:50 p.m. (0:00 elapsed). The
audio is off until 7:10:35 (0:45 elapsed).
Present (clockwise around table): Town Administrator Michael Magnant, Selectmen Musselman, Jenness and Mills, Town Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie.
Also present and sitting in the audience: Public Works Director Dennis McCarthy, Interim Fire Chief Tom Lambert, Police Chief Kevin Walsh, Building Inspector Peter Rowell.
Persons present from the public included: Victor Azzi, Mae Bradshaw, Peter Crawford, Deb Cross, Burt Dibble, Paul Goldman, Jaci Grote, Ray Jarvis, Sally King, John Loftus, Diedre Smyrnos, James Tegeder, Ritchie White.
Summary
1. The report of the Town Hall Committee recommending that five options be further pursued to arrive at cost estimates generated vigorous discussion about (a) the willingness of the Town to fund additional study after the expenditure of $350,000 on Town Hall and (b) why the option list includes options that respondents to a recent survey appear to have rejected. Click here for further Town Hall information from the RCL.
Non-public session (1:25 elapsed)
The motion to seal the
minutes of the immediately preceding non-public session carried unanimously.
Announcement of Christmas closing (1:40 elapsed)
The closure of Town
offices on Christmas, Friday, December 25, 2015 was announced.
Consent agenda (1:50 elapsed)
Selectman Jenness noted
that the agenda included the Heritage Commission fund raising brochure and a
letter from Peter Crawford requesting permission to collect signatures for
petitioned warrant articles at the Recycling Center on Saturday, January 2 and
9, 2016. Selectman Musselman requested
that the latter be removed from the Consent Agenda. Selectman Mills seconded. All were in favor. Selectman Musselman noted that the Heritage
Commission brochure was there for information only. The Selectman do not approve that, so no vote
is necessary, he said.
Collection of petitioned warrant article signatures at the Recycling
Center (2:48 elapsed)
Selectman Musselman
asked Peter Crawford what the likely topics for the petitioned warrant articles
were. Mr. Crawford stated that they did
not know yet, but Town Hall might be one and Water District SB2 might be
another.
Selectman Musselman
moved that the request be approved as presented. Selectman Mills asked whether a copy would be
provided before Mr. Crawford “occupied Town space.”
Selectman Musselman stated that Selectman
Mills was asking whether a copy of the warrant articles being circulated would
be provided to the Town Administrator as a courtesy. Mr. Crawford stated that that could probably
be done, however it would probably be the same day. Selectman Mills noted that the Town
Administrator is not in the office on Saturdays. Mr. Crawford stated that the copy would then
be provided the following Monday. He
could not be sure that the warrant articles would not be changed up to the last
minute but would be happy to provide a copy on Monday.
Selectman Mills
threatened to vote against the motion if Mr. Crawford would not agree to
provide a copy on Friday.
Mr. Crawford stated
that, first of all, he was agreeing to provide a copy as a courtesy. The Selectman do not have a right to see the
warrant articles. There may be a meeting
Saturday morning to agree to the final language, so he cannot commit to Friday. Once collection of the signatures has
started, the Selectmen are welcome to a copy, Mr. Crawford said. Selectman Mills stated that Mr. Crawford does
not do anything for the Town as a courtesy.
Selectman Jenness asked
whether there was a second to Selectman Musselman’s motion to approve the
request. Selectman Mills refused, so she
seconded the motion. The vote was 2-1,
Selectman Mills voting against.
Minutes (5:07 elapsed)
The minutes of the
November 23 meeting were unanimously approved with changes.
Appointment of Kyle Willet as a part-time police officer (6:30 elapsed)
Selectman Mills stated
that they had just met with him upstairs.
Selectman Musselman stated that they had already voted to retain
him. He stated that he is also part-time
in North Hampton, and that he is willing to work at the beach during the
summer. Selectman Jenness stated that he
would be sworn in the following morning.
Town Administrator Magnant stated that he would like a vote in public
session. Selectman Musselman moved to
approve the appointment. The motion
carried unanimously.
Report of Town Hall Committee (7:25 elapsed)
Committee Chairman Paul
Goldman, stated that a new Committee had been formed following the defeat of
the last warrant article. Editor’s note: In March, 2015, a $4.1 million warrant
article to renovate Town Hall and provide a second connected building on the
same site failed, 575-887, gaining only 39.3 percent of the vote, even though
60 percent was needed for passage as bond financing was being sought. The purpose of the Town Hall Committee formed
and selected by the Board of Selectmen was to start at “ground zero,” Mr.
Goldman said. Elements of the charge
included:
1.
Ascertaining how the citizens feel and what they want;
2.
Expanded latitude with regard to options.
Mr. Goldman stated that one of the first things done was to hire the New
Hampshire Survey Center. The survey
sought opinions regarding renovation vs. tear down, the building of a Town Hall
somewhere else, and feelings about possible cost ranges.
The key findings were:
1.
The citizens value the current Town Hall Building;
2.
The current site is also valued. Whether it is the current building or
another, the Town Hall should be on this site;
3.
Citizens are very cost conscious. The predominance of returns indicated that a
project would be more highly valued if it was between $2 million and $2.5
million, or less, in cost;
4.
The Great Hall, the space upstairs, is not necessarily
valued. In the defeated warrant article,
that represented 25 percent of the total floor space of the total facility;
5.
Voting at Rye Elementary School is not much of an
issue. That was to be one of the uses
for the Great Hall.
Those were the key “boundary conditions,” Mr. Goldman said. Space in the Public Safety Building was
investigated. There is a potential
second floor above the fire equipment bay.
Also, the possibility of using the residence area for firefighters was
looked into. Editor’s note: Mr. Goldman did
not mention that, under this scenario, that residence area would be moved above
the equipment bay, freeing up space. An
architect’s study in 2011 had determined that a stair and elevator tower would
be needed if the area above the equipment bay were to be used for Town
offices. As firefighters are presumably
able bodied, no elevator would be needed under this second possibility. The cost estimate done at the time was not
based on this option. Mr. Goldman also
did not mention that the THC determined that the Town offices needed to be
located in one facility, which precluded the use of the Public Safety Building
due to the lack of sufficient space to accommodate all Town offices. Interviews with the Police and Fire
Chiefs indicated that there were logistical and operational issues, Mr. Goldman
said. Thus, this option was eliminated.
Secondly, the use of
the Old Police Station/Trolley Barn was eliminated as a study was already
available indicating the renovation cost of that facility. There is not an operating septic system,
there is mold, and the parking is inadequate, he said. Editor’s
note: Click here
to read that study.
Mr. Goldman continued,
saying that the conclusion was a list of five possibilities. These will be used by the Board of Selectmen
to generate a warrant article to be used to fund an architectural study to
flesh out the concept, including timing and cost. The Town Hall Committee is not predisposed to
any particular option, notwithstanding rumors around town. The warrant article includes a small amount
of money to again survey the citizens following the availability of the results
of the next study.
The options are:
1.
Renovate the current Town Hall building, giving all
consideration to the historic features;
2.
Renovate the current Town Hall building, but without
necessarily considering the historic features.
It would brought up to code;
3.
Build a new building on the same parcel. This parcel has enough room for an additional
building. The future of this building is
to be determined;
4.
Tear down the existing Town Hall and build a new
building in keeping with the desires of the Historic District; and
5.
Build a new Town Hall building near the Public Safety
Building.
Mr. Goldman noted that the first four alternatives involve the existing
site. The fifth option involves land
that is currently for sale, however they do not know how long it will continue
to be for sale. The fifth option is not
within the boundary conditions of the survey, however it is in the center of
Town, in the Historic District.
Selectman Jenness
started to move on to the next agenda item, stating that she did not see any
hands raised. Ray Jarvis then raised his
hand.
(21:18 elapsed)
Mr. Jarvis stated that he felt that there is
a sixth option which he prefers. Given
the great problems with the existing building and a lot of townspeople who want
to keep the historic features, he suggested that some of the features be
removed and incorporated in a new building.
Selectman Mills stated
that those issues had been addressed.
Prior to the building being torn down, the ceiling, stairs and stage
would be addressed.
Mae Bradshaw, stated
that Mr. Goldman had made a very nice presentation, however, he neglected to
mention that a majority of the people in Town had stated that they did not care
if all of the employees are under one roof.
That is a very significant finding as once it has been determined that
all employees must be under one roof, it makes working with the existing Town
Hall much more difficult. If the option
of using other town properties for some functions had been retained, this
building would be more than adequate in terms of space. One of the first things that the Committee
determined was that everyone would have to be under one roof. Editor’s
note: Ms. Bradshaw is Chairman of the
Heritage Commission and also a member of the Capital Improvement Plan (“CIP”)
Committee.
Once you go down that
path, Ms. Bradshaw stated, “this building is somewhat doomed” because it isn’t
going to be big enough. Once the first
determination had been made, the Committee was free to ignore one of the key
survey findings, which is that the people do not want the Town Hall moved from
this site and didn’t want the Town to buy property and build somewhere
else. The proposal is to pay $500,000 to
buy a property in the Historic District to tear it down while the Town already
owns other property that they are planning to give away for a dollar, which
will be partially or entirely torn down.
Ms. Bradshaw stated
that the only option that a majority of the respondents to the survey indicated
that they wanted was the first one. They
do not want the building torn down, which is what is incorporated in options 3,
4 and 5. The fifth option of building
somewhere else involves abandonment of the existing Town Hall. It might as well be torn down as nobody is
going to provide $1 million to save the building after funds are spent to build
a new building.
The townspeople are
being asked for another $100,000 when four of the five options are ones they
have already indicated they do not want, Ms. Bradshaw said. They will be insulted further after hearing
that once the rest fail, they will be given another survey. They have not been respected in the first
survey and would now be asked to fill out another one. Ms. Bradshaw stated that she is very
disappointed with the results of the Committee’s work.
(26:34 elapsed)
Selectman Jenness noted that only 20-21
percent of survey respondents wanted the building torn down. She questioned why that was one of the
options going forward.
Mr. Goldman stated that
some of the information from the survey was very telling but also
conflicting. People want certain things,
but they do not want to pay for them, he said.
If a Town Hall is wanted in the center of town and on this site, one of
the viable options, whether people like it or not, is to tear this building
down and construct a new building here.
That does not mean that they are advocating this. One of the boundary conditions from the
survey had to do with cost and there is a strong belief that new construction
is less expensive.
Mr. Goldman on what Ms.
Bradshaw had said. He referred to the
2012 Space Needs study, the AG architectural study and the SMP study. While historic renovation and preservation is
nice, the way the whole project came into being was that town employees, for
current and future needs, are flat out of space. A lot of information from all of those
studies was used. In every one, they had
heard from the town employees about the need for the town functions to be in
one place. That was a requirement from
the beginning based on customer needs. Editor’s note: Normally the word “customer” is used in the
context of the party paying for what is being acquired. In this case, that would be the taxpayers,
not the Town employees.
(30:02 elapsed)
Peter Crawford stated that he agreed with
Mae Bradshaw. At this point, Selectman
Mills clutched his chest, saying he was surprised and was going to have a heart
attack. Mr. Crawford stated that he did
not always agree with Ms. Bradshaw. He
said that the Committee started out on the right track when Chairman Goldman
was talking about a bump out off of the back and minimizing the space needs. As time went by, it seemed like the project
was headed towards a 9000 or 9500 sq. ft. requirement.
Mr. Crawford continued, saying that the Town
Hall has about 6000 sq. ft. If the
building is to be made 9000 sq. ft., that would be a 50 percent extension out
the back. In 2013, the Heritage
Commission voted to keep the addition subservient and minimize the length of
any extension. In fact, the warrant
article that this Board of Selectmen approved had a maximum extension of a
third. If the entire building was the
same width, that would be a 2000 sq. ft. extension. However, the building narrows so it would be
somewhat less than that. It would be OK
if the requirement was 7000 or 7500 sq. ft. or if certain functions could be
moved elsewhere, like the Public Safety Building, the Old Police Station or an
additional small building on the same site.
If everything is going to be put in the Town Hall and it has to be 9000
sq. ft. the building would be very difficult or impossible to design to make it
architecturally subservient and pleasing to the population that is going to
have to approve it, he said.
Burt Dibble stated that
he had been following the process. He
was very disappointed at least year’s Deliberative Session that a better effort
at a public relations campaign had not been made. The results of the survey make it clear that
the townspeople are not sold on a good project.
The SMP presentation was a complete failure. Their PowerPoint did not work. It was the last single opportunity to make
the sale. Not enough was done to educate
the citizenry about the potential choices.
The survey was
extraordinary. The preponderance of the
respondents had been citizens of the Town for less than five years. Those people are likely to vote. Fifty-seven percent of the respondents said
that the Town Hall should be preserved.
Only twenty-five percent are in favor of tearing it down. Whatever is proposed this year must pass by
fifty percent. There is a steep uphill
grade to accomplish that based on the results of the survey. The experiences in North Hampton and
Barrington indicate that voters do not have an appetite for large
expenditures. The survey set a benchmark
of $2.5 million. A successful proposal
this year needs to be under that for sure.
There are creative ways to provide space needs for our town employees
and do it within that budget. There are
very capable people who have worked on the Town Hall Committee who are in the
construction trades. He would look to
their capabilities to find a solution which is financially viable.
(35:53 elapsed)
John Loftus stated that
he had been on the Town Hall Committee.
There were a lot of diverse opinions on that Committee. That is why they arrived at the list of
possible solutions. He has seen over and
over again that the Town Hall is a very emotional issue. The original genesis was obtaining space for
Town employees, but it keeps coming back to saving Town Hall. The idea behind the five items is to have an
architect review them and come back to the Town with insights into each option
and the cost of each approach, provided by an independent, unbiased
source. Each person on the Committee had
his own bias as to which was the best approach, but at the end the Committee unanimously
voted for the five options. Editor’s note: The Committee voted, option by option, on
whether to include each one. Many of
these votes were not unanimous.
A lot of people are looking at the survey,
however it is not 100 percent accurate as there is a lot of conflict in it, Mr.
Loftus said. For example, on the one
hand people want economy, on the other hand they want to save Town Hall. The building and the addition were $3.2
million. Selectman Musselman stated that
that was the construction cost. Editor’s note: The $4.1 million warrant article included
other costs not borne by the contractor, for example furniture and a
contingency for cost overruns. The
new building was to be about 5800 sq. ft.
At $200 per square foot, that would come out to less than $1.2 million. That means that $2 million was just for this
building, he said. Mr. Loftus stated
that he was a contractor for 25 years and did all of his own design work from
the foundation up, including conceptual, structural and interior/exterior
design.
Mr. Loftus continued,
saying that the survey did not present the kind of work needed for the Town
Hall. It is not a renovation, it is a
reconstruction of the building. There
would be so much material taken out and put back into the building to make it
structurally sound that it would be less expensive to build an exact replica,
he said. He summarized the steel
structure that would need to be added.
If one was designing an
office building, one would not design it with 19 foot ceilings, which is not
energy efficient. But that is what is being
done here.
It boils down to
getting more information to the public so that they can make a decision. If that decision is to keep the Town Hall,
that’s fine, he said.
Mr. Goldman stated that
the architectural study may come back and say that a small addition or bump out
to the building is needed. Addressing
Mr. Crawford’s comment, he said that not everything has to be crammed into the
same footprint.
(40:43 elapsed)
Ray Jarvis stated that,
if the problem is turned over to an architect and specific design parameters
are not given they may come out with a beautiful design that is not what is
needed. The amount of space needed can
be reduced by having meetings at the Library or the Junior High. A lot of the paper can be stored
elsewhere. Functions can be relocated
elsewhere. This has already been done
with Sewer and Rec. There is a lot of
space here that is not being used or is not being used in a functional
manner.
The space need is one
criteria. The other is an estimate of
how much money is available. Those are
steps one and two. Then the options can
be looked at in light of the space and money.
The other steps come later.
John Loftus stated that
the intent of the five alternatives is not for an architect to draw plans,
perhaps not even conceptual plans, but to provide the pros and cons of each
approach so that the public can weigh those.
Selectman Jenness
stated that she hoped that they can get it right so they don’t need to keep
reinventing the wheel. Each new
Committee has more and more material to go through in order to move forward.
Burt Dibble, stated
that he had been employed by the McKesson Corporation to work for the Medicaid
Department of the State of New Hampshire.
More and more administrative activities are done electronically. There was a time when he was in favor of
using more space in the Public Safety Building.
Judging from what is going on these days, he stated that there would be
more and more demand for space in that building. He is no longer in favor of using that space
for administrative purposes.
However, paper is going
to be replaced by electronic storage, perhaps not even in Town but in the
cloud. The space demands for the
administrative function are more likely to shrink than to expand. That needs to be factored in, he said.
With regard to the number
of proposals, the more there are the more likely it is that whatever is put
forward is likely to be defeated. The
citizenry would like to see a project proposal that meets the parameters of the
survey. After $450,000, bumping up the
“let’s think about it question” to $550,000 is not going to get a warm
reception. Editor’s note: Thus far,
$350,000 has been spent on Town Hall. In
2011, $40,000 was appropriated for a structural and space needs study. In 2013, $60,000 was appropriated for a
schematic (i.e. conceptual) design. In
2014, $250,000 was appropriated for final architectural drawings and other
documents needed to build the building.
This amount excludes an additional amount of approximately $6000 spent
this year for the survey. Mr. Dibble
stated that he would not like to see whatever is proposed this year be
defeated, which is why a forceful public relations campaign and a proposal that
people will find acceptable are what is needed.
Ray Jarvis asked if
there was any need that the Town Hall be addressed now. It appears that it is being addressed at the
eleventh hour. Selectman Mills stated
that it wasn’t the eleventh hour as the process had been going on for three
years. Mr. Jarvis asked whether it
should be on the ballot this year given the unresolved issues.
Selectman Musselman
stated that he and Selectman Mills had been on the Town Hall Committee, and there
was not a consensus on the Town Hall Committee around any of the five options. More information, particularly on the cost
implications, was needed before the Town could choose among the options. There were no funds to hire an architect this
year to develop cost estimates for the various alternatives.
With regard to the need
to do something now, Selectman Musselman stated that the Town is on borrowed
time until someone makes a claim with regard to ADA compliance. The Town is also on borrowed time until the
backup oil burner fails. Editor’s note: In 2012, a geothermal heating and cooling
system, funded largely with U.S. government grants, was installed at Town
Hall. However, the oil burner was
retained to provide for very cold days and the heating of some parts of the
building that are not on the geothermal system. The Town is also on borrowed time with
respect to the siding, which has not been painted. The information gathering needs to continue,
and part of that information is economic and it cannot be obtained from a
citizens’ committee, he said.
Mae Bradshaw refreshed
everyone’s recollection with regard to the Wolfeboro Town Hall experience. Six years ago, they went out for a $6 million
Town Hall renovation. There was a
demolition threat. They were made one of
the Seven to Save at that time. Editor’s note: This is an annual statewide list of seven
buildings which are worthy of being saved.
Rye Town Hall was placed on that list in 2015, as was the Oceanic Hotel
on Star Island, which is also in Rye.
Over the course of the last six years, private groups raised $850,000,
she said. The town found an architect
who, for $50,000, took their $6 million plan and reduced it to $4 million. The building has just been reopened with all
of those renovations made, accommodating all of the space needs of the
Town.
Ms. Bradshaw stated
that, as she had suggested months ago, if they had a public private partnership
working together rather than resisting such an enterprise perhaps Rye could
have something similar to what was fairly well vetted and studied last
year. She referred to a scaled down
version of that with the assistance of an architectural firm, perhaps the same
one. With that revised plan and some
private funds you might be able to get into the range of what the Town has said
it is willing to pay. The construction
cost of the new Town Hall was going to be $3.25 million. The town has said that they are willing to
pay $2.5 million which presumably includes furniture. Given these figures, she does not believe
that the private partnership is not doable, particularly with the State
commitment to help with the foundation and the steel. However, that has not been seriously
considered.
In fact, Ms. Bradshaw
stated, she was given the message that they were not to involve the Town. She had invited Mr. Magnant to a meeting as
representative of the Selectmen, however he was not permitted to attend a
meeting with the Town’s former architect and former engineer to sit down with
the Seven to Save people. That whole
project was accused of being an end run of this Committee.
Of course it is not an end run, Ms. Bradshaw
said. It is a possibility of getting
everything that you want without tearing the building down. All that she hears tonight is that we are
going in a very clear direction to disregard this building, which is only one
option. The other four take care of our
business and not look for outside assistance.
She stated that she is extraordinarily disappointed with the leadership
of the Town. That is where it needs to
come from. The Heritage Commission
cannot do it by itself. Seven to Save
cannot save if the owners of the building, as she believes they described themselves,
won’t let them. We were told that, even
if the Heritage Commission raised money it could not spend any money, she said. It would be really nice to see a change where
the community worked together, rather that in a divisive manner. Only two people on the Committee could get
together at any one time, she said.
(55:15 elapsed)
Mr. Loftus disagreed,
saying that most of the votes were 9-2 and one was 7-4. With regard to Mr. Jarvis’ comment this is
not an eleventh hour warrant article, he stated that the warrant article’s
purpose is to get more information so that people have a year to think about
it. Mr. Loftus stated that he had spent
eight hours looking at the plans. It is
a major reconstruction. Taking the
emotion out, the most economical option is to take the building down and build
new. He asked Building Inspector Peter
Rowell whether he needed more people in his department. Mr. Rowell confirmed. Mr. Loftus said that the same was likely true
of other departments. Even though people
may be able to do things electronically, people who work here still need to be
able to function.
Mr. Loftus stated that
he heard a lot at the meetings about squeezing things down. Laying out offices
is a specialty that he does not have expertise in. If a person without experience does that,
there is not going to be a good product at the end. While Ms. Bradshaw says that everything is
slanted towards tearing the Town Hall down, that is not true as the first two
options are focused on retaining the building.
Two options have the Town Hall being built elsewhere, with the existing
building being retained intact.
Selectman Jenness stated
that they would move forward on a warrant article to put together more
information so that, in another year there can be a single direction behind
which the Town can unite.
Heritage Commission banner advertising of
Seven to Save (59:35 elapsed)
Selectman Jenness
stated that the Heritage Commission had requested that a 60-inch by 60-inch
banner be temporarily displayed on Town Hall advertising the placement of Town
Hall on the Seven to Save list.
James Tegeder of the
Heritage Commission stated that they wanted to advertise the placement of the
Town on the Seven to Save list. The New
Hampshire Preservation Alliance suggested the banner. The permanent plaques have already been
placed on the building. Editor’s note: These state that the Town Hall has been
placed on the State Register of Historic Places.
Selectman Jenness asked what “temporary”
meant. Ms. Bradshaw stated that the
project was for one year.
Selectman Musselman,
addressing a comment earlier, stated that none of them believe that the Selectmen
own Town Hall. Rye taxpayers own Town
Hall. It is the Selectmen’s job to
represent all of the taxpayers. They are
going out with a warrant article to seek funds to help ascertain which
direction to take. He does not believe
that they should be advertising one of those directions by putting a sign on
Town Hall. There are people in this room
who feel very strongly that that is not an appropriate direction. Personally, he does not believe that there
will be a vote to tear down the building.
Personally, he does not believe that he will ever vote to tear down the
building. But, that is his personal
opinion and he is one of 5300 people.
The Selectmen agreed to put up the plaques, which is fine. A decision on behalf of taxpayers endorsing
two of the five alternatives on the Town Hall Committees list would be entirely
inappropriate.
With regard to a
comment earlier relating to two of the alternatives, it was not intended that
either of those have any connotation that this building would be demolished. Both of those alternatives were presented
with the intent that this building would be repurposed. To cast aspersions that all of the other
alternatives are intended to demolish Town Hall is destructive of this
decision-making process. Until a decision
is made as to what to do, there should not be a banner.
Selectman Mills stated
that he would second what Selectman Musselman said. He said that he was not happy with the sign
going up because it’s like “honky tonk world,” he said. If a banner is put up, the next thing you
know Coca Cola will want to put a banner up.
“If you respect this building, respect it. Okay.
Don’t go putting banners outside.”
He asked where Police Chief Kevin Walsh was and questioned whether the
banner would be distracting to drivers trying to determine what it said.
Selectman Musselman
said “this is like waving a red flag in front of a bull.”
Selectman Jenness
stated that it appeared that it would be two against one, however she would say
to Mae and James, that the drawing on the brochure given to them appeared to be
a for sale sign. There was
laughter. Selectman Musselman
gesticulated with his arms and said “no.”
Ms. Bradshaw stated
that options three and four, which abandon the building on site and building something
somewhere else is basically abandoning the building. Selectman Musselman stated that that is, flat
out, not true. Ms. Bradshaw stated that the
Town needed help saving the building. They
were certainly not going to get the citizens to pay $500,000 to purchase
another site, tear down a house in the Historic District, build a new Town Hall
and also fund preserving the existing Town Hall.
Selectman Musselman
said that he did not want to argue.
Mr. Goldman stated that
four of the five options leave the Town Hall standing. The job of the Town Hall Committee was to
come up with what to do now. The rest is
for further consideration.
Mark Josephs stated
that he was late in the game with respect to the Seven to Save and asked why
that was not being included in the options.
Saving the Town Hall might require $3.5 million, but $1 million would
come from other sources, he said. If
this is serious and true, and it sounds like it is, why would we want to move
away from that, he asked.
Selectman Musselman
said that it can be.
Mr. Goldman stated that
the Committee’s options are not limiting in that regard. The Town Hall Committee took it as far as
they could. They do not know what moneys
might be available.
John Loftus stated that
he had read some of Peter Michaud’s grants and they are on the order of $5000
or $10,000. Ms. Bradshaw stated that the
steel grant that she had been talking about for two years would probably be for
$144,000. That had already been
identified, she said. She has been saying
all of this for a year now. They tried
to have Michael Magnant come to a meeting as a representative of the Selectmen
and hear it all from the people that were offering it, but he was forbidden. That was the word which was used, she said.
Selectman Jenness
stated that the grants are not solid, however the potential is there. The problem is that the Heritage Commission
was moving in its own direction apart from the Town Hall Committee and that
cannot happen. One hand did not know
what the other was doing to do. As the
representative to the Heritage Commission she had suggested that someone from
the Heritage Commission should attend
the Town Hall Committee meetings to inform the group.
John Loftus stated that
a representative from the Heritage Commission had been on the Town Hall
Committee.
Selectman Jenness stated that the Town Hall
Committee needed to be informed regarding the grants.
Ms. Bradshaw stated that the Town Hall
Committee had been aware of the grants and had never sought the information. Selectman Musselman has heard her talk about
the grants and the Wolfeboro experience repeatedly, including at last year’s
Town Hall Committee meetings, she argued.
“They’re wanting to help us, but they don’t want to be accused of
setting up an ‘end run.’ So if you can’t
communicate with them, if you don’t want to communicate with them, then nothing
is going to happen.”
Selectman Musselman stated that they needed
to decide on the direction prior to pursuing the grants.
(72:20 elapsed)
Burt Dibble stated that
there are lots of creative opportunities that the leadership of the Town and
the citizens could develop. Wolfeboro
raised $800,000. There could be a
“Friends of Town Hall,” or a public/private corporation. There are all kinds of opportunities to take
advantage of funding opportunities.
People with the energy to pursue these opportunities should be
encouraged to do so.
Ritchie White, stated
that he served on the Town Hall Committee.
He stated that he found it distressing that the Heritage Commission
works against the Town Hall Committee and that they are clearly upset with what
the Town Hall Committee has done in not coming up with the options that they
would like to see. He would hope that
they would embrace the one option that provides for restoration and would
support it in the Town with education as to the possibility of getting grants
instead of battling them. They might get
the result that they want if they do that.
Ms. Bradshaw stated
that they had not battled anyone. They had
come and addressed the Board of Selectmen regularly. She was on the Town Hall Committee last
year. She has come to many of the
meetings this year and spoken on behalf of the Heritage Commission. The fact that they were successful in
obtaining State recognition was the work of the Heritage Commission. They brought it to them on a silver
platter. At the meeting of the Town Hall
Committee that she attended, most of the discussion revolved around demolition,
not how funds were going to be found to supplement the citizens’
pocketbooks. The Town’s historic center
is envied by every city in the State, she said.
It is being put in jeopardy.
Mr. Loftus disagreed
that the discussion revolved around demolition.
A lot of the energy of the Committee came down to space needs. There was very little discussion about
demolition.
Paul Goldman stated
that one of the options, not prioritized or weighted, is this building
preserved with its historic features.
Selectman Musselman
stated that the discussion was about the banner. There was laughter. He said that he made the motion that the
banner not be placed. Selectman Mills
seconded. The two voted in favor. Selectman Jenness abstained.
FEMA appeal (77:30 elapsed)
Town Administrator
Magnant provided the background. FEMA
had provided new flood plain maps. These
were proposed in mid-2014. There was a
period of time to appeal. Rye had one
appeal, Mr. O’Meara, 2220 Ocean Blvd. FEMA
required that any appeal be through the Town.
The appeal was allowed to go forward.
FEMA has issued its decision.
There were two elements challenged by Mr. O’Meara. One had to do with the base flood elevation
and the other had to do with a primary frontal dune.
Selectman Musselman
made a motion to support the appeal.
Selectman Jenness
stated that it appeared that FEMA had accepted one basis and rejected the
other. Mr. Magnant confirmed, and added
that Mr. O’Meara had spent a lot of money on the issue. He stated that he did not believe that it
would be fair to pull the rug out from under him at this point.
Selectman Mills stated
that he would second the motion for discussion but was going to vote against
it. He stated that Mr. O’Meara had made
an end run around them, hiring a former FEMA lawyer to represent him. Mr. Magnant stated that he had also hired
Peter Loughlin as well as an attorney in Washington, DC.
Mr. Magnant stated that
there was also the issue of his home being built in non-conformance with the
Town’s flood plain regulations. FEMA
felt that the Town should have caught that.
They are close to reaching resolution of that and he is being
cooperative in that process as well.
Selectman Jenness
stated that she did not know how he could be stopped in midstream. She asked a question about the dune.
Peter Rowell, Building
Inspector, stated that some of FEMA’s research using aerial photography and
distance imaging shows the presence of a dune that is, or was, there. They are sticking to their evaluation. They are saying that the dune is gone due to
the development on the site. There is a
lot of minutiae that is above his head with regard to that, he said. Now they are going to go to another
independent resolution board.
The vote was 2-1 in
favor of continuing to support the appeal, Selectman Mills voting against.
Results of proposal regarding Harbor Rd. bridge (83:42 elapsed)
Public Works Director
Dennis McCarthy stated that materials had been sent to ten engineers, but only
one response was received, from Hoyle Tanner & Assoc. For the others, the bridge was too small. He would recommend that it be awarded to
them. However, they are over the $10,000
budget estimate. Their proposal is for $14,535,
however he believes that the necessary funds can be found in the Public Works
budget, particularly since they were unable to purchase salt. It is an excellent proposal from an excellent
firm, he said.
Selectman Musselman
concurred, saying that if one chose a firm to do a bridge in New Hampshire that
is not CMA Engineers, he would choose Hoyle Tanner. Editor’s
note: Selectman Musselman’s firm is CMA
Engineers.
They are looking at maintaining the bridge
deck, not a total replacement, he said. It
is a fine proposal.
Mr. McCarthy stated
that one of the premises is that the bridge must be kept open.
Selectman Musselman
moved to retain Hoyle Tanner for a cost not to exceed $14,535. All were in favor.
Dumpster purchase (87:30 elapsed)
Mr. McCarthy stated
that they had been on a program to purchase one or two dumpsters annually. This year there are funds sufficient to buy
only one. The prices ranged from $4400
to $4863. He recommends that the low bid
of $4400 from Atlantic Recycling Equipment be accepted. It is a 30 yard container. All were in favor of the motion made by
Selectman Mills to accept this.
Letter from Addie Tarbell regarding hunters
near the Town Forest (88:15 elapsed)
Selectman Jenness read
the letter which referred to Ms. Tarbell having been walking her dog when a
hunter near her fired five times at a deer.
There were also hunters near the Recreation fields that were asked to
leave. She asked for rectification of
the situation so that no one is shot on Town land.
Selectman Musselman
asked what the policy on hunting on conservation land, the Town Forest and
adjacent land. Police Chief Kevin Walsh
stated that hunting is forbidden in the Town Forest. Permission of the owner is required to hunt
on private property. There was then
discussion about exactly where the incident had occurred and who owned the
land.
Selectman Jenness asked
whether signs prohibiting hunting on private land didn’t need to be posted
every 50 feet.
There was then
discussion as to whether the Conservation Commission or Public Works was managing
the Town Forest. Sally King, Chairman of
the Conservation Commission, stated that the land has never been marked every
50 feet. A better job needs to be
done. There is now more conservation
land and easements. The situation needs
to be resolved so that it is safe for everyone, she said.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether hunting was allowed on the conservation parcels that are not
adjacent to the Town Forest. Ms. King
stated that there are a lot of parcels, such as Seavey Acres and Marden Woods,
where hunting is allowed. It is not
allowed in Verrell Woods, but that is not marked, it was revealed.
Ritchie White,
suggested that kiosks be created at the two major entries to the Town Forest
showing the outline and the trails. The
seasons when hunting takes place should be posted and people walking in the woods
during those dates should be encouraged to wear blaze orange. A lot of the private property adjacent to the
Town Forest gets hunted. Some of the
trails run close to the property lines.
There needs to be education. Mr.
White said that he spent 11 years as Seacoast Commissioner on the Fish and Game
Commission. The Commission struggles
with maintaining a deer herd here that does not hurt the habitat. The problem is that there is not enough area
to hunt so it is hard to keep the deer population manageable. Further restrictions create problems with
Lyme Disease from ticks and damage to the shrubbery around houses.
Selectman Jenness
stated that the hunting season is long.
Mr. White started to talk about the gun season. Selectman Jenness stated that she would not
want to be shot by an arrow either.
There was laughter.
There was then
discussion about one kiosk being located behind the bank.
Selectman Musselman
stated that he hikes on the conservation lands that allow hunting. From September when the archers show up to
December, his dogs and he wear orange coats and he has a bell on his walking
stick.
Chief Walsh stated that
there is a Fish and Game officer who covers the area. He sees him coming in and out of Rye on
weekends regularly. He will see if the
patrols can be stepped up.
Selectman Mills said
that a group of hunters had come in. He
asked them whether they had anything to say.
David Kohlhase said
that he has lived in Rye all his life.
He does not believe that there is a problem with hunters in the Town
Forest. The problem is outside of
that. Most hunters are pretty safe. People have to be informed that it is hunting
season, he said.
A large number of
people left after Selectman Jenness stated that there were warrant articles to
discuss.
Warrant Article: Rescission of
bond authorization (106:20 elapsed)
Selectman Jenness
referred to Article 4 of the 2011 Town Warrant and a warrant article to rescind
it. Town Finance Director stated that
the equipment had been purchased rather than bought with debt. The auditors have been classifying it is
authorized but unissued debt. There
appeared to be agreement that the warrant article would be modified to explain
why rescission was being requested.
Fire Truck Capital Reserve Fund, $100,000 addition (107:50 elapsed)
Selectman Jenness read
the warrant article, which refers to a fund established in 1965. Ms. Gillespie stated that the CIP Plan had
recommended this, which is the reason why the warrant article is being
proposed.
Selectman Musselman
stated that this article is to gather funds to replace the Town’s quint, or
ladder truck. He stated that he does not
know that this needs to be replaced. The
possibility of consolidation is being considered and there are two ladder trucks
parked a mile and a half away. He
wondered if it was wise to put this off for a year. Perhaps it’s a different piece of equipment
if Rye is not going to have its own ladder truck. There has not been discussion with Portsmouth
yet about relying on their ladder trucks.
He knows that the CIP Committee recommended it because the quint is on
the CIP.
Interim Fire Chief Tom
Lambert stated that he understood that this fund was to be used for the
replacement of equipment in general, not just the quint.
Selectman Musselman
stated that, if the quint is not going to be replaced, he does not know what
would be. That planning process has not
occurred yet, he said.
Mae Bradshaw stated
that, from the CIP perspective, they were trying to provide level funding to
avoid spikes in the tax rate.
Selectman Musselman
stated that, if the money is not needed for a quint it would be needed for
something else. Selectman Musselman
asked how much was in the fund now. Ms.
Bradshaw stated that it was about $65,000.
Selectman Musselman made a motion to approve the warrant article absent
the second page. The motion carried
unanimously.
Sale of the Parsonage Apartments for one
dollar (114:25 elapsed)
Selectman Jenness read
the warrant article, which provides for sale of the Parsonage to the Housing
Partnership (“THP”) for one dollar, within five years, with a deed restriction
requiring that it be used for senior housing, contingent on the owner paying
property taxes, THP obtaining financing on terms acceptable to it, and the
execution of a purchase and sale agreement on terms acceptable to THP and the
Board of Selectmen.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether the warrant article should refer to low income senior housing.
Police Chief Kevin
Walsh asked whether there should be a condition to keep the footprint or the number
of apartments at the current level.
Selectman Musselman responded no, that THP might not be able to finance
it if it is just the existing footprint.
The addition of 6-8 units may be needed to make the project viable, he
said.
Chief Walsh expressed
concern that increasing the number of apartments would add to the congestion in
the area. Along with the Parsonage
Apartments there is the Library, the Public Safety Building, a business across
the street as well as morning and afternoon commutes with the schools and the
kids.
Selectman Musselman
suggested that THP would be better off renovating the Town Hall, which has more
room to do other things. Editor’s note: It has been suggested that the Town Hall, if
repurposed, could serve as senior housing.
Selectman Musselman has met with the head of THP, Marty Chapman to
discuss this issue. Burt Dibble then
suggested that the Town Hall could be built where the Parsonage Apartments
are. Selectman Musselman said that it
would not fit.
Selectman Musselman,
addressing Victor Azzi, who was sitting in the audience, stated that he had
looked at the Parsonage Apartments.
There would be room in the back of the Library for additional parking. However, a building with a white sign on it,
saying Second Parsonage, 1812, would have to be demolished. We’d probably want to save that, he said.
(117:40 elapsed)
Victor Azzi stated that he recalled when the
Town worked very hard to find an opportunity for the Rye Public Library to
expand after a number of failed attempts.
It had finally had an opportunity to buy the parcel of land that now
includes the Old Parsonage Apartments, the building used by the Historical
Society and the land used by the Library to expand the parking lot. That’s very precious land. “I can’t imagine this Town or any other town
being so willing or even eager to sell for a buck in the Rye town center a
piece of land that’s so important now, and probably even more important into
the future in the values of this Town.” He
asked what the big hurry was to sell “this tired old building which should have
been saved.” He stated that the building
was put under a management contract to provide for senior citizens. The building has suffered for the last l6
years through neglect. Nobody has put
any money into that building. Somebody
has been profiting by the operation of the building. Now the person who has failed maintain them
has made an offer to take it off of the Town’s hands because it is in such terrible
condition because he hasn’t maintained them.
Mr. Azzi referred to other possibilities to use the land for a higher
and better use, including possible use for Rye town offices. It is unconscionable to consider giving away,
or selling for a dollar, that land, he said.
Selectman Musselman
responded that they were at a crossroads with respect to the Housing
Partnership. When they took it over they
did a modest renovation. They have
maintained 6-8 low income housing units.
They have not had funds under that arrangement to do structural
upgrades. It is a non-profit
organization.
Mr. Azzi stated that he
had been involved with the initial evaluation of the property and had met with
the Housing Partnership. He was there
when the walls were opened up and droppings of termites were seen. The wallpaper was holding the walls together,
not the studs. It’s no surprise that it
is in worse condition now, he said.
Selectman Musselman
stated that, if the property is to continue as low income senior housing either
the Town must make a major capital investment for hundreds of thousands of
dollars or an arrangement can be made for low income senior housing
elsewhere. This idea was an alternative
to a major investment. If there are
other alternatives for that then these should be pursued. The Town should not close up shop and tell
the people to move somewhere else, he said.
Mr. Azzi stated that he
was not saying that, only that the warrant article was inappropriate. A study committee is needed, he said, to see
where the best interests of the Town and those whom the Town would like to have
continue to reside in the Town. If a
business arrangement to have the use of Town land is contemplated, then it
should be opened up. The Housing
Partnership is not the only game in Town, and what they have done in this Town,
on that site and elsewhere, is no model of perfection, by far, he said. Editor’s
note: The Housing Partnership also
manages housing units located at Rye Airfield, known as White Birch. This idea is very new to most people in
this Town, Mr. Azzi said. To ask them to
consider it in January and vote on it in March is unreasonable, he said.
(127:07 elapsed)
Selectman Mills
referred to the Library Trustees having reneged on a $100,000 loan from the Town. Editor’s
note: Mr. Azzi is one of the Library
Trustees. Mr. Azzi responded that
Selectman Mills did not know what he is talking about. He offered to discuss the matter at any
time. “This is childish,” he said. Editor’s
note: The Library borrowed money from
the Town because based on a pledge that it would receive a bequest when a
particular donor passed away. That has
not yet occurred, so the Library is not obligated to repay the loan as it has
not yet received the bequest.
Selectman Jenness said that the issue was
not part of the article. She stated that the issue came up at this time
because the lease was going to be up.
Mr. Azzi stated that he was aware that the lease was up in 2019 as he
was there when the legal document was prepared and was one of the
reviewers. Somehow this is an
accelerating railroad train that is going to go off the tracks, he said.
Selectman Musselman said that, in October he
was in favor of this. He believes that
Rye should not be a landlord. Perhaps
before voting to sell the Parsonage, other alternatives in Rye should be
investigated for providing senior housing.
A number of parcels should be on the list for consideration. The Police Chief raised a good point. From their discussion, they would need to add
eight units. It is a very intense use of
that site. He said that he is not sure
that he can see the architecture fitting in, he said.
Victor Azzi stated that he agreed.
Peter Crawford stated that he agreed with
Selectman Musselman and Mr. Azzi. One of
the big problems is that there is no appraisal of the land. He stated that he could not fathom how the
Town could be contemplating selling a piece of property with no appraisal
indicating what it is worth. That has to
be part of the mix, along with what it would cost to do something somewhere
else, if any. Perhaps Marty Chapman of
the Housing Partnership could be persuaded to buy some land on Route 1 and
build housing there at no cost to the Town.
We don’t know. All of this needs
to be looked at, he said.
Selectman Mills stated that an appraisal had
been done when the property was purchased.
Mr. Crawford responded that that had been 16 years earlier and values
had risen substantially since then. He
said that the land included property for the Library, or a piece of it, at that
time. The appraisal cannot be used, he
said.
Selectman Mills asked why not. Mr. Crawford responded that the appraisal was
too old and the entire parcel would not be being sold in any event. Selectman Mills stated that an adjustment
could be made for that. Mr. Crawford
said that he imagined that Selectman Mills was an expert at that. “Better than you,” Selectman Mills said. Mr. Crawford responded “I think not.”
Mae Bradshaw suggested an application with
Seven to Save to look at restoring the building for a different use. She suggested that another place might be
more appropriate for housing given the concerns of the Chief and the
residents. There may be a better Town
use of the property if it could be restored.
She volunteered the Heritage Commission if there were cooperation from
the Selectmen.
Selectman Musselman asked how they would
know that the Parsonage would not be in the middle of next year’s Seven to Save
list.
Burt Dibble pointed out
that there had already been two awards including the hotel on Star Island and
indicated that a third award in three years was unlikely.
Selectman Musselman
suggested that the matter be tabled.
Selectman Mills seconded.
Selectman Jenness stated that the matter would be tabled to the December
28 meeting.
Paul Goldman confirmed
that there would be additional warrant articles coming that would need to be
addressed by the Budget Committee.
Old Business: Septic pump out ordinance (127:00 elapsed)
Planning Administrator
Kim Reed addressed this issue. She
stated that Laura from FB Environmental that helped work on the pump out
ordinance was also present. She stated
that Attorney Donovan had looked at it and determined that it should be a
health ordinance. After the meeting two
weeks ago, Selectman Musselman, Peter Rowell, Mike Donovan and Mike Magnant had
been working with her. They have the
document, revised 12/7/2015 before them, which is the work of this group. They also met with Gail Snow, the Health
Officer, on Friday. She has reviewed it
and indicated that she would sign it.
She asked why the pump out period should not be one year rather than
three.
Laura stated that this
year’s data is similar to the past few years.
There are six sites that are regularly monitored. Some of the highest counts seen this summer
were near the marsh and Wallis Rd. These
were 200 times the State criteria, she said.
Selectman Musselman
asked about the DNA data.
Laura stated that
canine team had been used instead. Editor’s note: These are the “sniffing dogs” who are able to
distinguish between human and animal waste.
Selectman Musselman stated that DNA testing near the Marsh Rd.
outlet had been on the list.
Laura stated that the
dog data can be trusted. There have been
studies on that. The data showed that
nearly all of the 20 sites tested in November tested positive for human
wastewater.
Selectman Jenness asked
whether those were the red dots on page three.
Laura confirmed that these represented canine detections.
Selectman Musselman
asked about hits at night at RB1 and RB2.
Just south of Wallis Rd. Extension there is a cluster of red dots that
do not correspond to sampling locations.
When sampling had been done on the seeps there was no, or low,
bacteria.
Laura stated that most
of the samples are in the seep zone.
There is one along the retaining wall at one particular house. She confirmed that the dogs were detecting
waste water there.
There was further
discussion of the hits and whether the waste water would fan out.
Selectman Musselman
stated that the ordinance is set up with an Impaired Water Surface Quality Zone
where waiver of the pump out frequency would not be available. From RB1, I(2) to Wallis Sands State Beach
has been carved out because, to date, there has not been any data showing an
issue there. Laura stated that waste
water had been detected by the dogs in 2013 as well as this year.
(144:35 elapsed)
Peter Rowell, Building
Inspector, stated that there had been an open pit for a foundation dug out just
a little south of the cluster. The water
had been pumped out of that into a silt bag on the beach for 2-3 weeks. It was infiltrating behind the sea wall. It was just recently pulled out. Pumping was 24/7 and quite a bit of water was
removed. The pit was 8 feet deep. When the pit was dug they broke the septic
tank that had been servicing that building.
Selectman Musselman
said that that must be what the dogs had been sniffing.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether the area should be in the area in which a waiver could be granted
to pump out every seven years.
Mr. Rowell stated that
he had sketched an impaired zone, when they had been talking to Dr. Snow, from
Highland Ave. to beyond the State Park.
Selectman Musselman
said that Highland Ave., everything West of Ocean Blvd., Concord Point,
Appledore and Marsh and a piece of Parsons were included. Selectman Jenness asked whether there was a
clear map of the Parsons Creek watershed.
There was more discussion with maps passed around.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether houses east of Ocean Blvd. up to the State Beach should be
included in the impaired zone. Selectman
Jenness stated that they are all “in dune.”
There is not one of them that is not in sand, she said.
Mr. Magnant asked what kind
of water was being pumped out of the hole.
Selectman Musselman added “after they broke the septic tank.”
Mr. Rowell stated that
the house had been vacant for a number of years. He stated that he and Mr. Magnant had debated
grabbing a sample, but they did not do so.
Ms. Reed changed the
subject, stating that they had sent Dr. Snow’s request to the State. They responded with why the pump outs should
be every three years rather than every year.
Laura stated that 1-2
years is a little too frequent. When a
septic tank is pumped a medium is left so that the microbes can flourish and do
their job. If done too frequently, that
would be lost and the septic system would fail.
They recommend 3-5 years, depending on the usage and material put down
the drain.
Burt Dibble asked
whether the State makes an accommodation for seasonal vs. year round
occupancy. Selectman Musselman stated
that there was a clause in the proposed ordinance allowing those outside of the
impaired zone, based on limited water use or seasonal us, to request a
waiver. Peter Rowell can deny a
waiver. Someone outside of the zone can
appeal to the Health Officer, he said.
Victor Azzi asked when the dogs had done the
sniffing. Laura responded that it had
been on November 19 of this year. August
2013 had been the last time prior to that.
Mr. Azzi asked about seasonal variations. Laura confirmed that there were differences
in concentrations. Seasonal dwellers
that left in the fall may account for some of the differences.
Mr. Azzi asked whether
sniffing had been done on the west side of the properties along Ocean Blvd. at
Wallis Sands Beach. Most of the leach
fields and holding tanks are west of the houses, he asserted. Laura stated that they had not sniffed on
private property. Bucket sampling was
done at the 20 sites on which intensive sampling had been done during the
fall. The buckets were brought to a
neutral location and the dogs indicated whether they smelled human waste in the
samples from each of the sites. Laura
explained that bucket sampling involves water collected in a plastic bucket.
Selectman Musselman
held up a map and pointed out that human waste had been detected all along
Parsons Creek behind Peteys northward all of the way up to Marsh Rd. on the
west side of Ocean Blvd. There are
bacterial hits from samples as well as dog hits all the way along in that area,
he said.
Victor Azzi asked about
east of Ocean Blvd. and the string of properties between the ocean and Ocean
Blvd. Selectman Musselman stated that
they had been looking for outlets to surface water, not failed septic systems.
Victor Azzi asked
whether the reports were available.
Selectman Musselman confirmed that they are public documents. It is a series of memos. They are mid project. It extends next year with other tasks. Mr. Azzi asked whether it was on the
website. Selectman Musselman stated that
it could be. Kim Reed stated that all of
Phase One is already on the website.
Mr. Azzi asked whether
the Town could do anything about a house with a failed septic system. Selectman Musselman stated that they had been
talking to Town Counsel earlier in the evening and that this was a good
question. If there is reasonable cause
to believe that there is a failed system either the Town or the State may have
authority to go onto the property. They
are going to pursue that. If the problem
is going to be solved we are going to have to do that, he said. For the consultants and the study, they do
not have that authority and they cannot get it.
Peter Rowell, Building
Inspector stated if they can prove that there is a failed septic system they
can “get it done.” The problem in the
beach area is that all of the systems drain very well. The only way to prove a failed septic system
is to see a breakout of the effluent on the surface. That is very difficult, he said. He asserted that he had found failed systems
in the watershed and had them replaced.
There have been two or three in the four years that he has been with the
Town. It can be done through a notice of
violation process.
Selectman Musselman
asked about the date that Mr. Rowell had observed pumping. Mr. Rowell stated that they had just closed
it up in the last week, so it had been about a month. Selectman Musselman stated that he thought
that the ordinance should be left as it is.
Peter Crawford stated
that he was happy that all of the documents would be made available. Apparently there are some that are not in the
possession of the Town from the October meeting with FB Environmental and
Horsley Witten, he said. Selectman
Musselman stated that Horsley Witten had not been hired yet. According to Janice and Kim, neither one is
in the possession of the Town, Mr. Crawford said. He asked whether a copy of the FB
Environmental report could not be placed in the Town’s hands.
Town Administrator
Magnant stated that the answer was no.
They made their presentations. He
asked for copies and was told no. In
response to a question from Mr. Crawford, Mr. Magnant stated that this applied
to FB’s presentation as well.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether they would not give the presentation to Mr. Magnant. Mr. Magnant confirmed.
Mr. Crawford pointed
out that a lot of the others are available and are on the Town website.
Selectman Musselman
stated that it is public information and that they cannot say no to that. Mr. Crawford agreed. They cannot make a public presentation and
then not provide it, he argued. Horsley
Witten may be concerned about proprietary information, Selectman Musselman said. The Town may not have access to that, but FB
Environmental is doing work under a grant and needs to provide the information,
he said.
Mr. Crawford stated
that they had made a presentation in a public meeting that everyone could view,
but they did not leave behind copies of the slides.
Mr. Crawford asked
whether holding tanks would fit within the definition of a septic system or
whether a holding tank could be allowed to overflow without recourse. He asked whether that should be covered if it
is not.
Selectman Musselman
stated that holding tanks need to be pumped every week. They are a different animal, he said.
Mr. Crawford asked what
the enforcement mechanism was.
Mr. Rowell stated that
there were holding tanks “down there” that get pumped on an as needed
basis. Some are pumped a couple of times
a week. The enforcement mechanism is set
up by the DES approval of the holding tanks.
It falls on his office to check between the water usage and how often it
is pumped. There are four or five that
he is aware of. They are supposed to be
reporting every time they are pumped.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether those were all residential or whether some were commercial. Mr. Rowell stated that he knew of two
commercial holding tanks and two residential ones. Those are the only ones that he has stumbled
across, he said.
Selectman Jenness asked
when the owners knew when a pump out is needed and whether there was an
alarm. Mr. Rowell confirmed. He continued saying that he knows where they
are and has not seen any of them overflowing.
One of the owners has been put on notice by the Superior Court that if
he gets caught again with his tank overflowing, or if he gets caught disposing
of it inappropriately, he would be put in jail.
Mr. Crawford suggested
that this be covered by the ordinance as well, and that every instance of
pumping should be reported to the Town.
Mr. Rowell stated that these were under the State approval but the State
does not do any enforcement. Selectman
Musselman asked whether the State required reporting to the Town. Mr. Rowell expressed uncertainty as to
whether that was the case. Mr. Crawford
stated that this sounded like a loophole.
Selectman Musselman
changed the subject back to RB1 and RB2.
Selectman Musselman stated that Mr. Magnant had sent him a paper
asserting that enterococci could be generated within vegetation. He asked whether they were certain that this
was not the source. Laura stated that
she could not be certain that the samples in the middle of the night were not
from vegetation. She pointed out that
bacteria die quickly in sunlight and warm temperatures.
Selectman Musselman
stated that the process would be to have the Health Officer adopt the
regulation, then hold a public hearing, followed by placement of a warrant
article to approve the adoption of the regulation by the Health Officer and the
Board of Selectmen. It would take
effect, June 1, 2016, he said.
Selectman Musselman also stated that NHDES
would be asked to review the final form of the regulation. Selectman Musselman said that, if DES gets
back to them by December 18, there could be a public hearing on December
28.
Selectman Musselman
stated that the proposal for an $80,000 warrant article is premature. They need to summarize the data, get this
going, and think about the next steps.
We want to look at how enforcement can be dealt with. The bacteria contamination needs to be
reduced. It is not a watershed study, he
said. Editor’s note: FB Environmental
and Horsley Witten, at a meeting on October 26, 2015, had suggested that the
Town borrow approximately $80,000 to study the possibility of using community
septic systems in the Parsons Creek watershed to dispose of waste water.
Resignation of Jane Holway from the Heritage Commission (115:20 elapsed)
Selectman Jenness
stated this had been raised at the prior meeting but Selectman Mills stated
that he would not vote for it. She
stated that Ms. Holway had reiterated that she was resigning in an e-mail. Selectman Mills stated that he would vote
against accepting the resignation. He
stated that she had called him but he had not returned the call. He asserted that Ms. Holway was “taken to
task.” He recommended that the video of
the November 19 Heritage Commission meeting be viewed. Jane Holway was attacked that night, he
asserted.
Mae Bradshaw stated
that there was no attack of her that night.
There was simply a review of this Board’s refusal not to accept her
resignation. Jane has not attended for
three or four meetings. She was offered,
in the past week, a citizen position on the Demolition Review Committee, Ms.
Bradshaw said.
Selectman Musselman
moved to accept Ms. Holway’s resignation with regret and thank her for her
service. Selectman Jenness
seconded. The vote was 2-1, with
Selectman Mills opposed.
Ms. Bradshaw asked
whether Peter White could be appointed to the Commission. Selectman Mills moved that the matter be
tabled until the other Selectmen reviewed Mr. White’s comments about Ms.
Holway. There was no second. Selectman Musselman stated that he did not
want to watch the video. He said he does
not care if people want to be rude. The
motion failed for lack of a second.
Selectman Musselman moved to appoint Peter White to the Heritage
Commission. Selectman Jenness
seconded. The vote was 2-1, Selectman
Mills voting against.
Mae Bradshaw reported
that the Tallman Award had been made to Alex Herlihy this year. There was a celebration and a good time was
had by all.
Adjournment (120:30 elapsed)
The meeting adjourned
at approximately 10:10 p.m.