NOTES OF DECEMBER 14, 2015 RYE BOARD OF SELECTMEN MEETING

Final Revision D – Provided by the Rye Civic League

 

Editor’s note:  For ease in finding particular sections using the archived video and audio on the Town website, the elapsed time is indicated.  Use the slider and the elapsed time indicated at the bottom of the video window to fast forward to the desired section.  Videos on the Town website may currently be accessed at www.town.rye.nh.us by clicking on “Town Hall Streaming” at the bottom left of the screen.  Follow the link for “Town Hall Live Streaming,” then find the meeting by date under “Previous.”

The video starts at 7:09:50 p.m. (0:00 elapsed).  The audio is off until 7:10:35 (0:45 elapsed).

 

            Present (clockwise around table):  Town Administrator Michael Magnant, Selectmen Musselman, Jenness and Mills, Town Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie.

            Also present and sitting in the audience:  Public Works Director Dennis McCarthy, Interim Fire Chief Tom Lambert, Police Chief Kevin Walsh, Building Inspector Peter Rowell.

Persons present from the public included:  Victor Azzi, Mae Bradshaw, Peter Crawford, Deb Cross, Burt Dibble, Paul Goldman, Jaci Grote, Ray Jarvis, Sally King, John Loftus, Diedre Smyrnos, James Tegeder, Ritchie White.

 

Summary

 

1.      The report of the Town Hall Committee recommending that five options be further pursued to arrive at cost estimates generated vigorous discussion about (a) the willingness of the Town to fund additional study after the expenditure of $350,000 on Town Hall and (b) why the option list includes options that respondents to a recent survey appear to have rejected.  Click here for further Town Hall information from the RCL.

2.      The Selectmen voted down a request by the Heritage Commission to place a banner on Town Hall advertising its placement on the “Seven to Save” list.  Discussion of why the Selectmen are not supporting Heritage Commission efforts to take advantage of Seven to Save funds and resources.

3.      A letter complaining about hunters shooting at deer near the Town Forest generated significant attendance on both sides.  It was agreed that postings for no hunting on certain conservation land needs to be improved.

4.      A proposal to place a warrant article authorizing sale of the Parsonage Apartments to the Housing Partnership for one dollar was tabled to the next meeting following resident opposition.

5.      A septic pump out regulation for the Parsons Creek Watershed will likely appear on the warrant in March.  Septic sniffing dogs deployed in November detected human waste at nearly all locations where recent monitoring has detected high bacteria levels.

 

Non-public session (1:25 elapsed)

 

            The motion to seal the minutes of the immediately preceding non-public session carried unanimously.

 

Announcement of Christmas closing (1:40 elapsed)

 

            The closure of Town offices on Christmas, Friday, December 25, 2015 was announced.

 

Consent agenda (1:50 elapsed)

 

            Selectman Jenness noted that the agenda included the Heritage Commission fund raising brochure and a letter from Peter Crawford requesting permission to collect signatures for petitioned warrant articles at the Recycling Center on Saturday, January 2 and 9, 2016.  Selectman Musselman requested that the latter be removed from the Consent Agenda.  Selectman Mills seconded.  All were in favor.  Selectman Musselman noted that the Heritage Commission brochure was there for information only.  The Selectman do not approve that, so no vote is necessary, he said.

 

Collection of petitioned warrant article signatures at the Recycling Center (2:48 elapsed)

 

            Selectman Musselman asked Peter Crawford what the likely topics for the petitioned warrant articles were.  Mr. Crawford stated that they did not know yet, but Town Hall might be one and Water District SB2 might be another. 

            Selectman Musselman moved that the request be approved as presented.  Selectman Mills asked whether a copy would be provided before Mr. Crawford “occupied Town space.”

            Selectman Musselman stated that Selectman Mills was asking whether a copy of the warrant articles being circulated would be provided to the Town Administrator as a courtesy.  Mr. Crawford stated that that could probably be done, however it would probably be the same day.  Selectman Mills noted that the Town Administrator is not in the office on Saturdays.  Mr. Crawford stated that the copy would then be provided the following Monday.  He could not be sure that the warrant articles would not be changed up to the last minute but would be happy to provide a copy on Monday. 

            Selectman Mills threatened to vote against the motion if Mr. Crawford would not agree to provide a copy on Friday. 

            Mr. Crawford stated that, first of all, he was agreeing to provide a copy as a courtesy.  The Selectman do not have a right to see the warrant articles.  There may be a meeting Saturday morning to agree to the final language, so he cannot commit to Friday.  Once collection of the signatures has started, the Selectmen are welcome to a copy, Mr. Crawford said.  Selectman Mills stated that Mr. Crawford does not do anything for the Town as a courtesy.

            Selectman Jenness asked whether there was a second to Selectman Musselman’s motion to approve the request.  Selectman Mills refused, so she seconded the motion.  The vote was 2-1, Selectman Mills voting against. 

 

Minutes (5:07 elapsed)

 

            The minutes of the November 23 meeting were unanimously approved with changes. 

 

Appointment of Kyle Willet as a part-time police officer (6:30 elapsed)

 

            Selectman Mills stated that they had just met with him upstairs.  Selectman Musselman stated that they had already voted to retain him.  He stated that he is also part-time in North Hampton, and that he is willing to work at the beach during the summer.  Selectman Jenness stated that he would be sworn in the following morning.  Town Administrator Magnant stated that he would like a vote in public session.  Selectman Musselman moved to approve the appointment.  The motion carried unanimously. 

 

Report of Town Hall Committee (7:25 elapsed)

 

            Committee Chairman Paul Goldman, stated that a new Committee had been formed following the defeat of the last warrant article.  Editor’s note:  In March, 2015, a $4.1 million warrant article to renovate Town Hall and provide a second connected building on the same site failed, 575-887, gaining only 39.3 percent of the vote, even though 60 percent was needed for passage as bond financing was being sought.  The purpose of the Town Hall Committee formed and selected by the Board of Selectmen was to start at “ground zero,” Mr. Goldman said.  Elements of the charge included:

1.      Ascertaining how the citizens feel and what they want;

2.      Expanded latitude with regard to options.

Mr. Goldman stated that one of the first things done was to hire the New Hampshire Survey Center.  The survey sought opinions regarding renovation vs. tear down, the building of a Town Hall somewhere else, and feelings about possible cost ranges. 

            The key findings were:

1.      The citizens value the current Town Hall Building;

2.      The current site is also valued.  Whether it is the current building or another, the Town Hall should be on this site;

3.      Citizens are very cost conscious.  The predominance of returns indicated that a project would be more highly valued if it was between $2 million and $2.5 million, or less, in cost;

4.      The Great Hall, the space upstairs, is not necessarily valued.  In the defeated warrant article, that represented 25 percent of the total floor space of the total facility;

5.      Voting at Rye Elementary School is not much of an issue.  That was to be one of the uses for the Great Hall.

Those were the key “boundary conditions,” Mr. Goldman said.  Space in the Public Safety Building was investigated.  There is a potential second floor above the fire equipment bay.  Also, the possibility of using the residence area for firefighters was looked into.  Editor’s note:  Mr. Goldman did not mention that, under this scenario, that residence area would be moved above the equipment bay, freeing up space.  An architect’s study in 2011 had determined that a stair and elevator tower would be needed if the area above the equipment bay were to be used for Town offices.  As firefighters are presumably able bodied, no elevator would be needed under this second possibility.  The cost estimate done at the time was not based on this option.  Mr. Goldman also did not mention that the THC determined that the Town offices needed to be located in one facility, which precluded the use of the Public Safety Building due to the lack of sufficient space to accommodate all Town offices.  Interviews with the Police and Fire Chiefs indicated that there were logistical and operational issues, Mr. Goldman said.  Thus, this option was eliminated.

            Secondly, the use of the Old Police Station/Trolley Barn was eliminated as a study was already available indicating the renovation cost of that facility.  There is not an operating septic system, there is mold, and the parking is inadequate, he said.  Editor’s note:  Click here to read that study.

            Mr. Goldman continued, saying that the conclusion was a list of five possibilities.  These will be used by the Board of Selectmen to generate a warrant article to be used to fund an architectural study to flesh out the concept, including timing and cost.  The Town Hall Committee is not predisposed to any particular option, notwithstanding rumors around town.  The warrant article includes a small amount of money to again survey the citizens following the availability of the results of the next study.

            The options are:

1.      Renovate the current Town Hall building, giving all consideration to the historic features;

2.      Renovate the current Town Hall building, but without necessarily considering the historic features.  It would brought up to code;

3.      Build a new building on the same parcel.  This parcel has enough room for an additional building.  The future of this building is to be determined;

4.      Tear down the existing Town Hall and build a new building in keeping with the desires of the Historic District; and

5.      Build a new Town Hall building near the Public Safety Building.

Mr. Goldman noted that the first four alternatives involve the existing site.  The fifth option involves land that is currently for sale, however they do not know how long it will continue to be for sale.  The fifth option is not within the boundary conditions of the survey, however it is in the center of Town, in the Historic District. 

            Selectman Jenness started to move on to the next agenda item, stating that she did not see any hands raised.  Ray Jarvis then raised his hand.

 

(21:18 elapsed)

            Mr. Jarvis stated that he felt that there is a sixth option which he prefers.  Given the great problems with the existing building and a lot of townspeople who want to keep the historic features, he suggested that some of the features be removed and incorporated in a new building. 

            Selectman Mills stated that those issues had been addressed.  Prior to the building being torn down, the ceiling, stairs and stage would be addressed. 

            Mae Bradshaw, stated that Mr. Goldman had made a very nice presentation, however, he neglected to mention that a majority of the people in Town had stated that they did not care if all of the employees are under one roof.  That is a very significant finding as once it has been determined that all employees must be under one roof, it makes working with the existing Town Hall much more difficult.  If the option of using other town properties for some functions had been retained, this building would be more than adequate in terms of space.  One of the first things that the Committee determined was that everyone would have to be under one roof.  Editor’s note:  Ms. Bradshaw is Chairman of the Heritage Commission and also a member of the Capital Improvement Plan (“CIP”) Committee.

            Once you go down that path, Ms. Bradshaw stated, “this building is somewhat doomed” because it isn’t going to be big enough.  Once the first determination had been made, the Committee was free to ignore one of the key survey findings, which is that the people do not want the Town Hall moved from this site and didn’t want the Town to buy property and build somewhere else.  The proposal is to pay $500,000 to buy a property in the Historic District to tear it down while the Town already owns other property that they are planning to give away for a dollar, which will be partially or entirely torn down. 

            Ms. Bradshaw stated that the only option that a majority of the respondents to the survey indicated that they wanted was the first one.  They do not want the building torn down, which is what is incorporated in options 3, 4 and 5.  The fifth option of building somewhere else involves abandonment of the existing Town Hall.  It might as well be torn down as nobody is going to provide $1 million to save the building after funds are spent to build a new building. 

            The townspeople are being asked for another $100,000 when four of the five options are ones they have already indicated they do not want, Ms. Bradshaw said.  They will be insulted further after hearing that once the rest fail, they will be given another survey.  They have not been respected in the first survey and would now be asked to fill out another one.  Ms. Bradshaw stated that she is very disappointed with the results of the Committee’s work. 

 

(26:34 elapsed)

            Selectman Jenness noted that only 20-21 percent of survey respondents wanted the building torn down.  She questioned why that was one of the options going forward.

            Mr. Goldman stated that some of the information from the survey was very telling but also conflicting.  People want certain things, but they do not want to pay for them, he said.  If a Town Hall is wanted in the center of town and on this site, one of the viable options, whether people like it or not, is to tear this building down and construct a new building here.  That does not mean that they are advocating this.  One of the boundary conditions from the survey had to do with cost and there is a strong belief that new construction is less expensive.

            Mr. Goldman on what Ms. Bradshaw had said.  He referred to the 2012 Space Needs study, the AG architectural study and the SMP study.  While historic renovation and preservation is nice, the way the whole project came into being was that town employees, for current and future needs, are flat out of space.  A lot of information from all of those studies was used.  In every one, they had heard from the town employees about the need for the town functions to be in one place.  That was a requirement from the beginning based on customer needs.  Editor’s note:  Normally the word “customer” is used in the context of the party paying for what is being acquired.  In this case, that would be the taxpayers, not the Town employees.

 

(30:02 elapsed)

            Peter Crawford stated that he agreed with Mae Bradshaw.  At this point, Selectman Mills clutched his chest, saying he was surprised and was going to have a heart attack.  Mr. Crawford stated that he did not always agree with Ms. Bradshaw.  He said that the Committee started out on the right track when Chairman Goldman was talking about a bump out off of the back and minimizing the space needs.   As time went by, it seemed like the project was headed towards a 9000 or 9500 sq. ft. requirement. 

Mr. Crawford continued, saying that the Town Hall has about 6000 sq. ft.  If the building is to be made 9000 sq. ft., that would be a 50 percent extension out the back.  In 2013, the Heritage Commission voted to keep the addition subservient and minimize the length of any extension.  In fact, the warrant article that this Board of Selectmen approved had a maximum extension of a third.  If the entire building was the same width, that would be a 2000 sq. ft. extension.  However, the building narrows so it would be somewhat less than that.  It would be OK if the requirement was 7000 or 7500 sq. ft. or if certain functions could be moved elsewhere, like the Public Safety Building, the Old Police Station or an additional small building on the same site.  If everything is going to be put in the Town Hall and it has to be 9000 sq. ft. the building would be very difficult or impossible to design to make it architecturally subservient and pleasing to the population that is going to have to approve it, he said. 

            Burt Dibble stated that he had been following the process.  He was very disappointed at least year’s Deliberative Session that a better effort at a public relations campaign had not been made.  The results of the survey make it clear that the townspeople are not sold on a good project.  The SMP presentation was a complete failure.  Their PowerPoint did not work.  It was the last single opportunity to make the sale.  Not enough was done to educate the citizenry about the potential choices.

            The survey was extraordinary.   The preponderance of the respondents had been citizens of the Town for less than five years.  Those people are likely to vote.  Fifty-seven percent of the respondents said that the Town Hall should be preserved.  Only twenty-five percent are in favor of tearing it down.  Whatever is proposed this year must pass by fifty percent.  There is a steep uphill grade to accomplish that based on the results of the survey.  The experiences in North Hampton and Barrington indicate that voters do not have an appetite for large expenditures.  The survey set a benchmark of $2.5 million.  A successful proposal this year needs to be under that for sure.  There are creative ways to provide space needs for our town employees and do it within that budget.  There are very capable people who have worked on the Town Hall Committee who are in the construction trades.  He would look to their capabilities to find a solution which is financially viable. 

 

(35:53 elapsed)

            John Loftus stated that he had been on the Town Hall Committee.  There were a lot of diverse opinions on that Committee.  That is why they arrived at the list of possible solutions.  He has seen over and over again that the Town Hall is a very emotional issue.  The original genesis was obtaining space for Town employees, but it keeps coming back to saving Town Hall.  The idea behind the five items is to have an architect review them and come back to the Town with insights into each option and the cost of each approach, provided by an independent, unbiased source.  Each person on the Committee had his own bias as to which was the best approach, but at the end the Committee unanimously voted for the five options.  Editor’s note:  The Committee voted, option by option, on whether to include each one.  Many of these votes were not unanimous.

            A lot of people are looking at the survey, however it is not 100 percent accurate as there is a lot of conflict in it, Mr. Loftus said.  For example, on the one hand people want economy, on the other hand they want to save Town Hall.  The building and the addition were $3.2 million.  Selectman Musselman stated that that was the construction cost.  Editor’s note:  The $4.1 million warrant article included other costs not borne by the contractor, for example furniture and a contingency for cost overruns.  The new building was to be about 5800 sq. ft.  At $200 per square foot, that would come out to less than $1.2 million.  That means that $2 million was just for this building, he said.  Mr. Loftus stated that he was a contractor for 25 years and did all of his own design work from the foundation up, including conceptual, structural and interior/exterior design.

            Mr. Loftus continued, saying that the survey did not present the kind of work needed for the Town Hall.  It is not a renovation, it is a reconstruction of the building.  There would be so much material taken out and put back into the building to make it structurally sound that it would be less expensive to build an exact replica, he said.  He summarized the steel structure that would need to be added. 

            If one was designing an office building, one would not design it with 19 foot ceilings, which is not energy efficient.  But that is what is being done here.

            It boils down to getting more information to the public so that they can make a decision.  If that decision is to keep the Town Hall, that’s fine, he said. 

            Mr. Goldman stated that the architectural study may come back and say that a small addition or bump out to the building is needed.  Addressing Mr. Crawford’s comment, he said that not everything has to be crammed into the same footprint. 

 

(40:43 elapsed)

            Ray Jarvis stated that, if the problem is turned over to an architect and specific design parameters are not given they may come out with a beautiful design that is not what is needed.  The amount of space needed can be reduced by having meetings at the Library or the Junior High.  A lot of the paper can be stored elsewhere.  Functions can be relocated elsewhere.  This has already been done with Sewer and Rec.  There is a lot of space here that is not being used or is not being used in a functional manner. 

            The space need is one criteria.  The other is an estimate of how much money is available.  Those are steps one and two.  Then the options can be looked at in light of the space and money.  The other steps come later.

            John Loftus stated that the intent of the five alternatives is not for an architect to draw plans, perhaps not even conceptual plans, but to provide the pros and cons of each approach so that the public can weigh those. 

            Selectman Jenness stated that she hoped that they can get it right so they don’t need to keep reinventing the wheel.  Each new Committee has more and more material to go through in order to move forward.

            Burt Dibble, stated that he had been employed by the McKesson Corporation to work for the Medicaid Department of the State of New Hampshire.  More and more administrative activities are done electronically.  There was a time when he was in favor of using more space in the Public Safety Building.  Judging from what is going on these days, he stated that there would be more and more demand for space in that building.  He is no longer in favor of using that space for administrative purposes. 

            However, paper is going to be replaced by electronic storage, perhaps not even in Town but in the cloud.  The space demands for the administrative function are more likely to shrink than to expand.  That needs to be factored in, he said. 

            With regard to the number of proposals, the more there are the more likely it is that whatever is put forward is likely to be defeated.  The citizenry would like to see a project proposal that meets the parameters of the survey.  After $450,000, bumping up the “let’s think about it question” to $550,000 is not going to get a warm reception.  Editor’s note:  Thus far, $350,000 has been spent on Town Hall.  In 2011, $40,000 was appropriated for a structural and space needs study.  In 2013, $60,000 was appropriated for a schematic (i.e. conceptual) design.  In 2014, $250,000 was appropriated for final architectural drawings and other documents needed to build the building.  This amount excludes an additional amount of approximately $6000 spent this year for the survey.  Mr. Dibble stated that he would not like to see whatever is proposed this year be defeated, which is why a forceful public relations campaign and a proposal that people will find acceptable are what is needed.

            Ray Jarvis asked if there was any need that the Town Hall be addressed now.  It appears that it is being addressed at the eleventh hour.  Selectman Mills stated that it wasn’t the eleventh hour as the process had been going on for three years.  Mr. Jarvis asked whether it should be on the ballot this year given the unresolved issues. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that he and Selectman Mills had been on the Town Hall Committee, and there was not a consensus on the Town Hall Committee around any of the five options.  More information, particularly on the cost implications, was needed before the Town could choose among the options.  There were no funds to hire an architect this year to develop cost estimates for the various alternatives. 

            With regard to the need to do something now, Selectman Musselman stated that the Town is on borrowed time until someone makes a claim with regard to ADA compliance.  The Town is also on borrowed time until the backup oil burner fails.  Editor’s note:  In 2012, a geothermal heating and cooling system, funded largely with U.S. government grants, was installed at Town Hall.  However, the oil burner was retained to provide for very cold days and the heating of some parts of the building that are not on the geothermal system.  The Town is also on borrowed time with respect to the siding, which has not been painted.  The information gathering needs to continue, and part of that information is economic and it cannot be obtained from a citizens’ committee, he said.

            Mae Bradshaw refreshed everyone’s recollection with regard to the Wolfeboro Town Hall experience.  Six years ago, they went out for a $6 million Town Hall renovation.  There was a demolition threat.  They were made one of the Seven to Save at that time.  Editor’s note:  This is an annual statewide list of seven buildings which are worthy of being saved.  Rye Town Hall was placed on that list in 2015, as was the Oceanic Hotel on Star Island, which is also in Rye.  Over the course of the last six years, private groups raised $850,000, she said.  The town found an architect who, for $50,000, took their $6 million plan and reduced it to $4 million.  The building has just been reopened with all of those renovations made, accommodating all of the space needs of the Town. 

            Ms. Bradshaw stated that, as she had suggested months ago, if they had a public private partnership working together rather than resisting such an enterprise perhaps Rye could have something similar to what was fairly well vetted and studied last year.  She referred to a scaled down version of that with the assistance of an architectural firm, perhaps the same one.  With that revised plan and some private funds you might be able to get into the range of what the Town has said it is willing to pay.  The construction cost of the new Town Hall was going to be $3.25 million.  The town has said that they are willing to pay $2.5 million which presumably includes furniture.  Given these figures, she does not believe that the private partnership is not doable, particularly with the State commitment to help with the foundation and the steel.  However, that has not been seriously considered. 

            In fact, Ms. Bradshaw stated, she was given the message that they were not to involve the Town.  She had invited Mr. Magnant to a meeting as representative of the Selectmen, however he was not permitted to attend a meeting with the Town’s former architect and former engineer to sit down with the Seven to Save people.  That whole project was accused of being an end run of this Committee. 

Of course it is not an end run, Ms. Bradshaw said.  It is a possibility of getting everything that you want without tearing the building down.  All that she hears tonight is that we are going in a very clear direction to disregard this building, which is only one option.  The other four take care of our business and not look for outside assistance.  She stated that she is extraordinarily disappointed with the leadership of the Town.  That is where it needs to come from.  The Heritage Commission cannot do it by itself.  Seven to Save cannot save if the owners of the building, as she believes they described themselves, won’t let them.  We were told that, even if the Heritage Commission raised money it could not spend any money, she said.  It would be really nice to see a change where the community worked together, rather that in a divisive manner.  Only two people on the Committee could get together at any one time, she said.

 

(55:15 elapsed)

            Mr. Loftus disagreed, saying that most of the votes were 9-2 and one was 7-4.  With regard to Mr. Jarvis’ comment this is not an eleventh hour warrant article, he stated that the warrant article’s purpose is to get more information so that people have a year to think about it.  Mr. Loftus stated that he had spent eight hours looking at the plans.  It is a major reconstruction.  Taking the emotion out, the most economical option is to take the building down and build new.  He asked Building Inspector Peter Rowell whether he needed more people in his department.  Mr. Rowell confirmed.  Mr. Loftus said that the same was likely true of other departments.  Even though people may be able to do things electronically, people who work here still need to be able to function. 

            Mr. Loftus stated that he heard a lot at the meetings about squeezing things down. Laying out offices is a specialty that he does not have expertise in.  If a person without experience does that, there is not going to be a good product at the end.  While Ms. Bradshaw says that everything is slanted towards tearing the Town Hall down, that is not true as the first two options are focused on retaining the building.  Two options have the Town Hall being built elsewhere, with the existing building being retained intact. 

            Selectman Jenness stated that they would move forward on a warrant article to put together more information so that, in another year there can be a single direction behind which the Town can unite.

 

Heritage Commission banner advertising of Seven to Save (59:35 elapsed)

 

            Selectman Jenness stated that the Heritage Commission had requested that a 60-inch by 60-inch banner be temporarily displayed on Town Hall advertising the placement of Town Hall on the Seven to Save list.

            James Tegeder of the Heritage Commission stated that they wanted to advertise the placement of the Town on the Seven to Save list.  The New Hampshire Preservation Alliance suggested the banner.  The permanent plaques have already been placed on the building.  Editor’s note:  These state that the Town Hall has been placed on the State Register of Historic Places.

            Selectman Jenness asked what “temporary” meant.  Ms. Bradshaw stated that the project was for one year. 

            Selectman Musselman, addressing a comment earlier, stated that none of them believe that the Selectmen own Town Hall.  Rye taxpayers own Town Hall.  It is the Selectmen’s job to represent all of the taxpayers.  They are going out with a warrant article to seek funds to help ascertain which direction to take.  He does not believe that they should be advertising one of those directions by putting a sign on Town Hall.  There are people in this room who feel very strongly that that is not an appropriate direction.  Personally, he does not believe that there will be a vote to tear down the building.  Personally, he does not believe that he will ever vote to tear down the building.  But, that is his personal opinion and he is one of 5300 people.  The Selectmen agreed to put up the plaques, which is fine.  A decision on behalf of taxpayers endorsing two of the five alternatives on the Town Hall Committees list would be entirely inappropriate. 

            With regard to a comment earlier relating to two of the alternatives, it was not intended that either of those have any connotation that this building would be demolished.   Both of those alternatives were presented with the intent that this building would be repurposed.  To cast aspersions that all of the other alternatives are intended to demolish Town Hall is destructive of this decision-making process.  Until a decision is made as to what to do, there should not be a banner. 

            Selectman Mills stated that he would second what Selectman Musselman said.  He said that he was not happy with the sign going up because it’s like “honky tonk world,” he said.  If a banner is put up, the next thing you know Coca Cola will want to put a banner up.  “If you respect this building, respect it.  Okay.  Don’t go putting banners outside.”  He asked where Police Chief Kevin Walsh was and questioned whether the banner would be distracting to drivers trying to determine what it said. 

            Selectman Musselman said “this is like waving a red flag in front of a bull.”

            Selectman Jenness stated that it appeared that it would be two against one, however she would say to Mae and James, that the drawing on the brochure given to them appeared to be a for sale sign.  There was laughter.  Selectman Musselman gesticulated with his arms and said “no.”

            Ms. Bradshaw stated that options three and four, which abandon the building on site and building something somewhere else is basically abandoning the building.  Selectman Musselman stated that that is, flat out, not true.  Ms. Bradshaw stated that the Town needed help saving the building.  They were certainly not going to get the citizens to pay $500,000 to purchase another site, tear down a house in the Historic District, build a new Town Hall and also fund preserving the existing Town Hall. 

            Selectman Musselman said that he did not want to argue. 

            Mr. Goldman stated that four of the five options leave the Town Hall standing.  The job of the Town Hall Committee was to come up with what to do now.  The rest is for further consideration.

            Mark Josephs stated that he was late in the game with respect to the Seven to Save and asked why that was not being included in the options.  Saving the Town Hall might require $3.5 million, but $1 million would come from other sources, he said.  If this is serious and true, and it sounds like it is, why would we want to move away from that, he asked. 

            Selectman Musselman said that it can be. 

            Mr. Goldman stated that the Committee’s options are not limiting in that regard.  The Town Hall Committee took it as far as they could.  They do not know what moneys might be available. 

            John Loftus stated that he had read some of Peter Michaud’s grants and they are on the order of $5000 or $10,000.  Ms. Bradshaw stated that the steel grant that she had been talking about for two years would probably be for $144,000.  That had already been identified, she said.  She has been saying all of this for a year now.  They tried to have Michael Magnant come to a meeting as a representative of the Selectmen and hear it all from the people that were offering it, but he was forbidden.  That was the word which was used, she said.

            Selectman Jenness stated that the grants are not solid, however the potential is there.  The problem is that the Heritage Commission was moving in its own direction apart from the Town Hall Committee and that cannot happen.  One hand did not know what the other was doing to do.  As the representative to the Heritage Commission she had suggested that someone from the Heritage Commission  should attend the Town Hall Committee meetings to inform the group. 

            John Loftus stated that a representative from the Heritage Commission had been on the Town Hall Committee.

Selectman Jenness stated that the Town Hall Committee needed to be informed regarding the grants.

Ms. Bradshaw stated that the Town Hall Committee had been aware of the grants and had never sought the information.  Selectman Musselman has heard her talk about the grants and the Wolfeboro experience repeatedly, including at last year’s Town Hall Committee meetings, she argued.  “They’re wanting to help us, but they don’t want to be accused of setting up an ‘end run.’  So if you can’t communicate with them, if you don’t want to communicate with them, then nothing is going to happen.”

Selectman Musselman stated that they needed to decide on the direction prior to pursuing the grants. 

 

(72:20 elapsed)

            Burt Dibble stated that there are lots of creative opportunities that the leadership of the Town and the citizens could develop.  Wolfeboro raised $800,000.  There could be a “Friends of Town Hall,” or a public/private corporation.  There are all kinds of opportunities to take advantage of funding opportunities.  People with the energy to pursue these opportunities should be encouraged to do so. 

            Ritchie White, stated that he served on the Town Hall Committee.  He stated that he found it distressing that the Heritage Commission works against the Town Hall Committee and that they are clearly upset with what the Town Hall Committee has done in not coming up with the options that they would like to see.  He would hope that they would embrace the one option that provides for restoration and would support it in the Town with education as to the possibility of getting grants instead of battling them.  They might get the result that they want if they do that. 

            Ms. Bradshaw stated that they had not battled anyone.  They had come and addressed the Board of Selectmen regularly.  She was on the Town Hall Committee last year.  She has come to many of the meetings this year and spoken on behalf of the Heritage Commission.  The fact that they were successful in obtaining State recognition was the work of the Heritage Commission.  They brought it to them on a silver platter.  At the meeting of the Town Hall Committee that she attended, most of the discussion revolved around demolition, not how funds were going to be found to supplement the citizens’ pocketbooks.  The Town’s historic center is envied by every city in the State, she said.  It is being put in jeopardy.

            Mr. Loftus disagreed that the discussion revolved around demolition.  A lot of the energy of the Committee came down to space needs.  There was very little discussion about demolition.

            Paul Goldman stated that one of the options, not prioritized or weighted, is this building preserved with its historic features. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that the discussion was about the banner.  There was laughter.  He said that he made the motion that the banner not be placed.  Selectman Mills seconded.  The two voted in favor.  Selectman Jenness abstained.

           

FEMA appeal (77:30 elapsed)

 

            Town Administrator Magnant provided the background.  FEMA had provided new flood plain maps.  These were proposed in mid-2014.  There was a period of time to appeal.  Rye had one appeal, Mr. O’Meara, 2220 Ocean Blvd.  FEMA required that any appeal be through the Town.  The appeal was allowed to go forward.  FEMA has issued its decision.  There were two elements challenged by Mr. O’Meara.  One had to do with the base flood elevation and the other had to do with a primary frontal dune. 

            Selectman Musselman made a motion to support the appeal.

            Selectman Jenness stated that it appeared that FEMA had accepted one basis and rejected the other.  Mr. Magnant confirmed, and added that Mr. O’Meara had spent a lot of money on the issue.  He stated that he did not believe that it would be fair to pull the rug out from under him at this point.

            Selectman Mills stated that he would second the motion for discussion but was going to vote against it.  He stated that Mr. O’Meara had made an end run around them, hiring a former FEMA lawyer to represent him.  Mr. Magnant stated that he had also hired Peter Loughlin as well as an attorney in Washington, DC. 

            Mr. Magnant stated that there was also the issue of his home being built in non-conformance with the Town’s flood plain regulations.  FEMA felt that the Town should have caught that.  They are close to reaching resolution of that and he is being cooperative in that process as well. 

            Selectman Jenness stated that she did not know how he could be stopped in midstream.  She asked a question about the dune.

            Peter Rowell, Building Inspector, stated that some of FEMA’s research using aerial photography and distance imaging shows the presence of a dune that is, or was, there.  They are sticking to their evaluation.  They are saying that the dune is gone due to the development on the site.  There is a lot of minutiae that is above his head with regard to that, he said.  Now they are going to go to another independent resolution board.

            The vote was 2-1 in favor of continuing to support the appeal, Selectman Mills voting against.

 

Results of proposal regarding Harbor Rd. bridge (83:42 elapsed)

 

            Public Works Director Dennis McCarthy stated that materials had been sent to ten engineers, but only one response was received, from Hoyle Tanner & Assoc.  For the others, the bridge was too small.  He would recommend that it be awarded to them.  However, they are over the $10,000 budget estimate.  Their proposal is for $14,535, however he believes that the necessary funds can be found in the Public Works budget, particularly since they were unable to purchase salt.  It is an excellent proposal from an excellent firm, he said.

            Selectman Musselman concurred, saying that if one chose a firm to do a bridge in New Hampshire that is not CMA Engineers, he would choose Hoyle Tanner.  Editor’s note:  Selectman Musselman’s firm is CMA Engineers. 

            They are looking at maintaining the bridge deck, not a total replacement, he said.  It is a fine proposal. 

            Mr. McCarthy stated that one of the premises is that the bridge must be kept open. 

            Selectman Musselman moved to retain Hoyle Tanner for a cost not to exceed $14,535.  All were in favor. 

 

Dumpster purchase (87:30 elapsed)

 

            Mr. McCarthy stated that they had been on a program to purchase one or two dumpsters annually.  This year there are funds sufficient to buy only one.  The prices ranged from $4400 to $4863.  He recommends that the low bid of $4400 from Atlantic Recycling Equipment be accepted.  It is a 30 yard container.  All were in favor of the motion made by Selectman Mills to accept this. 

 

Letter from Addie Tarbell regarding hunters near the Town Forest (88:15 elapsed)

 

            Selectman Jenness read the letter which referred to Ms. Tarbell having been walking her dog when a hunter near her fired five times at a deer.  There were also hunters near the Recreation fields that were asked to leave.  She asked for rectification of the situation so that no one is shot on Town land. 

            Selectman Musselman asked what the policy on hunting on conservation land, the Town Forest and adjacent land.  Police Chief Kevin Walsh stated that hunting is forbidden in the Town Forest.  Permission of the owner is required to hunt on private property.  There was then discussion about exactly where the incident had occurred and who owned the land. 

            Selectman Jenness asked whether signs prohibiting hunting on private land didn’t need to be posted every 50 feet. 

            There was then discussion as to whether the Conservation Commission or Public Works was managing the Town Forest.  Sally King, Chairman of the Conservation Commission, stated that the land has never been marked every 50 feet.  A better job needs to be done.  There is now more conservation land and easements.  The situation needs to be resolved so that it is safe for everyone, she said.

            Selectman Musselman asked whether hunting was allowed on the conservation parcels that are not adjacent to the Town Forest.  Ms. King stated that there are a lot of parcels, such as Seavey Acres and Marden Woods, where hunting is allowed.  It is not allowed in Verrell Woods, but that is not marked, it was revealed. 

            Ritchie White, suggested that kiosks be created at the two major entries to the Town Forest showing the outline and the trails.  The seasons when hunting takes place should be posted and people walking in the woods during those dates should be encouraged to wear blaze orange.  A lot of the private property adjacent to the Town Forest gets hunted.  Some of the trails run close to the property lines.  There needs to be education.  Mr. White said that he spent 11 years as Seacoast Commissioner on the Fish and Game Commission.  The Commission struggles with maintaining a deer herd here that does not hurt the habitat.  The problem is that there is not enough area to hunt so it is hard to keep the deer population manageable.  Further restrictions create problems with Lyme Disease from ticks and damage to the shrubbery around houses. 

            Selectman Jenness stated that the hunting season is long.  Mr. White started to talk about the gun season.  Selectman Jenness stated that she would not want to be shot by an arrow either.  There was laughter. 

            There was then discussion about one kiosk being located behind the bank. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that he hikes on the conservation lands that allow hunting.  From September when the archers show up to December, his dogs and he wear orange coats and he has a bell on his walking stick. 

            Chief Walsh stated that there is a Fish and Game officer who covers the area.  He sees him coming in and out of Rye on weekends regularly.  He will see if the patrols can be stepped up. 

            Selectman Mills said that a group of hunters had come in.  He asked them whether they had anything to say.

            David Kohlhase said that he has lived in Rye all his life.  He does not believe that there is a problem with hunters in the Town Forest.  The problem is outside of that.  Most hunters are pretty safe.  People have to be informed that it is hunting season, he said. 

            A large number of people left after Selectman Jenness stated that there were warrant articles to discuss.

 

Warrant Article:  Rescission of bond authorization (106:20 elapsed)

 

            Selectman Jenness referred to Article 4 of the 2011 Town Warrant and a warrant article to rescind it.  Town Finance Director stated that the equipment had been purchased rather than bought with debt.  The auditors have been classifying it is authorized but unissued debt.  There appeared to be agreement that the warrant article would be modified to explain why rescission was being requested.

 

Fire Truck Capital Reserve Fund, $100,000 addition (107:50 elapsed)

 

            Selectman Jenness read the warrant article, which refers to a fund established in 1965.  Ms. Gillespie stated that the CIP Plan had recommended this, which is the reason why the warrant article is being proposed. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that this article is to gather funds to replace the Town’s quint, or ladder truck.  He stated that he does not know that this needs to be replaced.  The possibility of consolidation is being considered and there are two ladder trucks parked a mile and a half away.  He wondered if it was wise to put this off for a year.  Perhaps it’s a different piece of equipment if Rye is not going to have its own ladder truck.  There has not been discussion with Portsmouth yet about relying on their ladder trucks.  He knows that the CIP Committee recommended it because the quint is on the CIP. 

            Interim Fire Chief Tom Lambert stated that he understood that this fund was to be used for the replacement of equipment in general, not just the quint. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that, if the quint is not going to be replaced, he does not know what would be.  That planning process has not occurred yet, he said.

            Mae Bradshaw stated that, from the CIP perspective, they were trying to provide level funding to avoid spikes in the tax rate. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that, if the money is not needed for a quint it would be needed for something else.  Selectman Musselman asked how much was in the fund now.  Ms. Bradshaw stated that it was about $65,000.  Selectman Musselman made a motion to approve the warrant article absent the second page.  The motion carried unanimously.

 

Sale of the Parsonage Apartments for one dollar (114:25 elapsed)

           

            Selectman Jenness read the warrant article, which provides for sale of the Parsonage to the Housing Partnership (“THP”) for one dollar, within five years, with a deed restriction requiring that it be used for senior housing, contingent on the owner paying property taxes, THP obtaining financing on terms acceptable to it, and the execution of a purchase and sale agreement on terms acceptable to THP and the Board of Selectmen.

            Selectman Musselman asked whether the warrant article should refer to low income senior housing.

            Police Chief Kevin Walsh asked whether there should be a condition to keep the footprint or the number of apartments at the current level.  Selectman Musselman responded no, that THP might not be able to finance it if it is just the existing footprint.  The addition of 6-8 units may be needed to make the project viable, he said.

            Chief Walsh expressed concern that increasing the number of apartments would add to the congestion in the area.  Along with the Parsonage Apartments there is the Library, the Public Safety Building, a business across the street as well as morning and afternoon commutes with the schools and the kids.

            Selectman Musselman suggested that THP would be better off renovating the Town Hall, which has more room to do other things.  Editor’s note:  It has been suggested that the Town Hall, if repurposed, could serve as senior housing.  Selectman Musselman has met with the head of THP, Marty Chapman to discuss this issue.  Burt Dibble then suggested that the Town Hall could be built where the Parsonage Apartments are.  Selectman Musselman said that it would not fit. 

            Selectman Musselman, addressing Victor Azzi, who was sitting in the audience, stated that he had looked at the Parsonage Apartments.  There would be room in the back of the Library for additional parking.  However, a building with a white sign on it, saying Second Parsonage, 1812, would have to be demolished.  We’d probably want to save that, he said.

 

(117:40 elapsed)

            Victor Azzi stated that he recalled when the Town worked very hard to find an opportunity for the Rye Public Library to expand after a number of failed attempts.  It had finally had an opportunity to buy the parcel of land that now includes the Old Parsonage Apartments, the building used by the Historical Society and the land used by the Library to expand the parking lot.  That’s very precious land.  “I can’t imagine this Town or any other town being so willing or even eager to sell for a buck in the Rye town center a piece of land that’s so important now, and probably even more important into the future in the values of this Town.”  He asked what the big hurry was to sell “this tired old building which should have been saved.”  He stated that the building was put under a management contract to provide for senior citizens.  The building has suffered for the last l6 years through neglect.  Nobody has put any money into that building.  Somebody has been profiting by the operation of the building.  Now the person who has failed maintain them has made an offer to take it off of the Town’s hands because it is in such terrible condition because he hasn’t maintained them.  Mr. Azzi referred to other possibilities to use the land for a higher and better use, including possible use for Rye town offices.  It is unconscionable to consider giving away, or selling for a dollar, that land, he said. 

            Selectman Musselman responded that they were at a crossroads with respect to the Housing Partnership.  When they took it over they did a modest renovation.  They have maintained 6-8 low income housing units.  They have not had funds under that arrangement to do structural upgrades.  It is a non-profit organization. 

            Mr. Azzi stated that he had been involved with the initial evaluation of the property and had met with the Housing Partnership.  He was there when the walls were opened up and droppings of termites were seen.  The wallpaper was holding the walls together, not the studs.  It’s no surprise that it is in worse condition now, he said.

            Selectman Musselman stated that, if the property is to continue as low income senior housing either the Town must make a major capital investment for hundreds of thousands of dollars or an arrangement can be made for low income senior housing elsewhere.  This idea was an alternative to a major investment.  If there are other alternatives for that then these should be pursued.  The Town should not close up shop and tell the people to move somewhere else, he said. 

            Mr. Azzi stated that he was not saying that, only that the warrant article was inappropriate.  A study committee is needed, he said, to see where the best interests of the Town and those whom the Town would like to have continue to reside in the Town.  If a business arrangement to have the use of Town land is contemplated, then it should be opened up.  The Housing Partnership is not the only game in Town, and what they have done in this Town, on that site and elsewhere, is no model of perfection, by far, he said.  Editor’s note:  The Housing Partnership also manages housing units located at Rye Airfield, known as White Birch.  This idea is very new to most people in this Town, Mr. Azzi said.  To ask them to consider it in January and vote on it in March is unreasonable, he said.

 

(127:07 elapsed)

            Selectman Mills referred to the Library Trustees having reneged on a $100,000 loan from the Town.  Editor’s note:  Mr. Azzi is one of the Library Trustees.  Mr. Azzi responded that Selectman Mills did not know what he is talking about.  He offered to discuss the matter at any time.  “This is childish,” he said.  Editor’s note:  The Library borrowed money from the Town because based on a pledge that it would receive a bequest when a particular donor passed away.  That has not yet occurred, so the Library is not obligated to repay the loan as it has not yet received the bequest.  

Selectman Jenness said that the issue was not part of the article.   She stated that the issue came up at this time because the lease was going to be up.  Mr. Azzi stated that he was aware that the lease was up in 2019 as he was there when the legal document was prepared and was one of the reviewers.  Somehow this is an accelerating railroad train that is going to go off the tracks, he said. 

Selectman Musselman said that, in October he was in favor of this.  He believes that Rye should not be a landlord.  Perhaps before voting to sell the Parsonage, other alternatives in Rye should be investigated for providing senior housing.  A number of parcels should be on the list for consideration.  The Police Chief raised a good point.  From their discussion, they would need to add eight units.  It is a very intense use of that site.  He said that he is not sure that he can see the architecture fitting in, he said. 

Victor Azzi stated that he agreed.

Peter Crawford stated that he agreed with Selectman Musselman and Mr. Azzi.  One of the big problems is that there is no appraisal of the land.  He stated that he could not fathom how the Town could be contemplating selling a piece of property with no appraisal indicating what it is worth.  That has to be part of the mix, along with what it would cost to do something somewhere else, if any.  Perhaps Marty Chapman of the Housing Partnership could be persuaded to buy some land on Route 1 and build housing there at no cost to the Town.  We don’t know.  All of this needs to be looked at, he said. 

Selectman Mills stated that an appraisal had been done when the property was purchased.  Mr. Crawford responded that that had been 16 years earlier and values had risen substantially since then.  He said that the land included property for the Library, or a piece of it, at that time.  The appraisal cannot be used, he said.

Selectman Mills asked why not.  Mr. Crawford responded that the appraisal was too old and the entire parcel would not be being sold in any event.  Selectman Mills stated that an adjustment could be made for that.  Mr. Crawford said that he imagined that Selectman Mills was an expert at that.  “Better than you,” Selectman Mills said.  Mr. Crawford responded “I think not.”

Mae Bradshaw suggested an application with Seven to Save to look at restoring the building for a different use.  She suggested that another place might be more appropriate for housing given the concerns of the Chief and the residents.  There may be a better Town use of the property if it could be restored.  She volunteered the Heritage Commission if there were cooperation from the Selectmen. 

Selectman Musselman asked how they would know that the Parsonage would not be in the middle of next year’s Seven to Save list. 

            Burt Dibble pointed out that there had already been two awards including the hotel on Star Island and indicated that a third award in three years was unlikely. 

            Selectman Musselman suggested that the matter be tabled.  Selectman Mills seconded.  Selectman Jenness stated that the matter would be tabled to the December 28 meeting.

            Paul Goldman confirmed that there would be additional warrant articles coming that would need to be addressed by the Budget Committee.

           

Old Business:  Septic pump out ordinance (127:00 elapsed)

 

            Planning Administrator Kim Reed addressed this issue.  She stated that Laura from FB Environmental that helped work on the pump out ordinance was also present.  She stated that Attorney Donovan had looked at it and determined that it should be a health ordinance.  After the meeting two weeks ago, Selectman Musselman, Peter Rowell, Mike Donovan and Mike Magnant had been working with her.  They have the document, revised 12/7/2015 before them, which is the work of this group.  They also met with Gail Snow, the Health Officer, on Friday.  She has reviewed it and indicated that she would sign it.  She asked why the pump out period should not be one year rather than three. 

            Laura stated that this year’s data is similar to the past few years.  There are six sites that are regularly monitored.  Some of the highest counts seen this summer were near the marsh and Wallis Rd.  These were 200 times the State criteria, she said.

            Selectman Musselman asked about the DNA data.

            Laura stated that canine team had been used instead.  Editor’s note:  These are the “sniffing dogs” who are able to distinguish between human and animal waste.  Selectman Musselman stated that DNA testing near the Marsh Rd. outlet had been on the list.

            Laura stated that the dog data can be trusted.  There have been studies on that.  The data showed that nearly all of the 20 sites tested in November tested positive for human wastewater. 

            Selectman Jenness asked whether those were the red dots on page three.  Laura confirmed that these represented canine detections.

            Selectman Musselman asked about hits at night at RB1 and RB2.  Just south of Wallis Rd. Extension there is a cluster of red dots that do not correspond to sampling locations.  When sampling had been done on the seeps there was no, or low, bacteria. 

            Laura stated that most of the samples are in the seep zone.  There is one along the retaining wall at one particular house.  She confirmed that the dogs were detecting waste water there. 

            There was further discussion of the hits and whether the waste water would fan out. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that the ordinance is set up with an Impaired Water Surface Quality Zone where waiver of the pump out frequency would not be available.  From RB1, I(2) to Wallis Sands State Beach has been carved out because, to date, there has not been any data showing an issue there.  Laura stated that waste water had been detected by the dogs in 2013 as well as this year.

 

(144:35 elapsed)

            Peter Rowell, Building Inspector, stated that there had been an open pit for a foundation dug out just a little south of the cluster.  The water had been pumped out of that into a silt bag on the beach for 2-3 weeks.  It was infiltrating behind the sea wall.  It was just recently pulled out.  Pumping was 24/7 and quite a bit of water was removed.  The pit was 8 feet deep.  When the pit was dug they broke the septic tank that had been servicing that building. 

            Selectman Musselman said that that must be what the dogs had been sniffing. 

            Selectman Musselman asked whether the area should be in the area in which a waiver could be granted to pump out every seven years. 

            Mr. Rowell stated that he had sketched an impaired zone, when they had been talking to Dr. Snow, from Highland Ave. to beyond the State Park. 

            Selectman Musselman said that Highland Ave., everything West of Ocean Blvd., Concord Point, Appledore and Marsh and a piece of Parsons were included.  Selectman Jenness asked whether there was a clear map of the Parsons Creek watershed.  There was more discussion with maps passed around. 

            Selectman Musselman asked whether houses east of Ocean Blvd. up to the State Beach should be included in the impaired zone.  Selectman Jenness stated that they are all “in dune.”  There is not one of them that is not in sand, she said. 

            Mr. Magnant asked what kind of water was being pumped out of the hole.  Selectman Musselman added “after they broke the septic tank.”

            Mr. Rowell stated that the house had been vacant for a number of years.  He stated that he and Mr. Magnant had debated grabbing a sample, but they did not do so. 

            Ms. Reed changed the subject, stating that they had sent Dr. Snow’s request to the State.  They responded with why the pump outs should be every three years rather than every year.

            Laura stated that 1-2 years is a little too frequent.  When a septic tank is pumped a medium is left so that the microbes can flourish and do their job.  If done too frequently, that would be lost and the septic system would fail.  They recommend 3-5 years, depending on the usage and material put down the drain. 

            Burt Dibble asked whether the State makes an accommodation for seasonal vs. year round occupancy.  Selectman Musselman stated that there was a clause in the proposed ordinance allowing those outside of the impaired zone, based on limited water use or seasonal us, to request a waiver.  Peter Rowell can deny a waiver.  Someone outside of the zone can appeal to the Health Officer, he said. 

            Victor Azzi asked when the dogs had done the sniffing.  Laura responded that it had been on November 19 of this year.  August 2013 had been the last time prior to that.  Mr. Azzi asked about seasonal variations.   Laura confirmed that there were differences in concentrations.  Seasonal dwellers that left in the fall may account for some of the differences.

            Mr. Azzi asked whether sniffing had been done on the west side of the properties along Ocean Blvd. at Wallis Sands Beach.  Most of the leach fields and holding tanks are west of the houses, he asserted.  Laura stated that they had not sniffed on private property.  Bucket sampling was done at the 20 sites on which intensive sampling had been done during the fall.  The buckets were brought to a neutral location and the dogs indicated whether they smelled human waste in the samples from each of the sites.  Laura explained that bucket sampling involves water collected in a plastic bucket.

            Selectman Musselman held up a map and pointed out that human waste had been detected all along Parsons Creek behind Peteys northward all of the way up to Marsh Rd. on the west side of Ocean Blvd.  There are bacterial hits from samples as well as dog hits all the way along in that area, he said. 

            Victor Azzi asked about east of Ocean Blvd. and the string of properties between the ocean and Ocean Blvd.  Selectman Musselman stated that they had been looking for outlets to surface water, not failed septic systems.

            Victor Azzi asked whether the reports were available.  Selectman Musselman confirmed that they are public documents.  It is a series of memos.  They are mid project.  It extends next year with other tasks.  Mr. Azzi asked whether it was on the website.  Selectman Musselman stated that it could be.  Kim Reed stated that all of Phase One is already on the website. 

            Mr. Azzi asked whether the Town could do anything about a house with a failed septic system.  Selectman Musselman stated that they had been talking to Town Counsel earlier in the evening and that this was a good question.  If there is reasonable cause to believe that there is a failed system either the Town or the State may have authority to go onto the property.  They are going to pursue that.  If the problem is going to be solved we are going to have to do that, he said.  For the consultants and the study, they do not have that authority and they cannot get it. 

            Peter Rowell, Building Inspector stated if they can prove that there is a failed septic system they can “get it done.”  The problem in the beach area is that all of the systems drain very well.  The only way to prove a failed septic system is to see a breakout of the effluent on the surface.  That is very difficult, he said.  He asserted that he had found failed systems in the watershed and had them replaced.  There have been two or three in the four years that he has been with the Town.  It can be done through a notice of violation process. 

            Selectman Musselman asked about the date that Mr. Rowell had observed pumping.  Mr. Rowell stated that they had just closed it up in the last week, so it had been about a month.  Selectman Musselman stated that he thought that the ordinance should be left as it is. 

            Peter Crawford stated that he was happy that all of the documents would be made available.  Apparently there are some that are not in the possession of the Town from the October meeting with FB Environmental and Horsley Witten, he said.  Selectman Musselman stated that Horsley Witten had not been hired yet.  According to Janice and Kim, neither one is in the possession of the Town, Mr. Crawford said.  He asked whether a copy of the FB Environmental report could not be placed in the Town’s hands. 

            Town Administrator Magnant stated that the answer was no.  They made their presentations.  He asked for copies and was told no.  In response to a question from Mr. Crawford, Mr. Magnant stated that this applied to FB’s presentation as well. 

            Selectman Musselman asked whether they would not give the presentation to Mr. Magnant.  Mr. Magnant confirmed. 

            Mr. Crawford pointed out that a lot of the others are available and are on the Town website. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that it is public information and that they cannot say no to that.  Mr. Crawford agreed.  They cannot make a public presentation and then not provide it, he argued.  Horsley Witten may be concerned about proprietary information, Selectman Musselman said.  The Town may not have access to that, but FB Environmental is doing work under a grant and needs to provide the information, he said. 

            Mr. Crawford stated that they had made a presentation in a public meeting that everyone could view, but they did not leave behind copies of the slides. 

            Mr. Crawford asked whether holding tanks would fit within the definition of a septic system or whether a holding tank could be allowed to overflow without recourse.  He asked whether that should be covered if it is not. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that holding tanks need to be pumped every week.  They are a different animal, he said.

            Mr. Crawford asked what the enforcement mechanism was.

            Mr. Rowell stated that there were holding tanks “down there” that get pumped on an as needed basis.  Some are pumped a couple of times a week.  The enforcement mechanism is set up by the DES approval of the holding tanks.  It falls on his office to check between the water usage and how often it is pumped.  There are four or five that he is aware of.  They are supposed to be reporting every time they are pumped. 

            Selectman Musselman asked whether those were all residential or whether some were commercial.  Mr. Rowell stated that he knew of two commercial holding tanks and two residential ones.  Those are the only ones that he has stumbled across, he said. 

            Selectman Jenness asked when the owners knew when a pump out is needed and whether there was an alarm.  Mr. Rowell confirmed.  He continued saying that he knows where they are and has not seen any of them overflowing.  One of the owners has been put on notice by the Superior Court that if he gets caught again with his tank overflowing, or if he gets caught disposing of it inappropriately, he would be put in jail.    

            Mr. Crawford suggested that this be covered by the ordinance as well, and that every instance of pumping should be reported to the Town.  Mr. Rowell stated that these were under the State approval but the State does not do any enforcement.  Selectman Musselman asked whether the State required reporting to the Town.  Mr. Rowell expressed uncertainty as to whether that was the case.  Mr. Crawford stated that this sounded like a loophole.

            Selectman Musselman changed the subject back to RB1 and RB2.  Selectman Musselman stated that Mr. Magnant had sent him a paper asserting that enterococci could be generated within vegetation.  He asked whether they were certain that this was not the source.  Laura stated that she could not be certain that the samples in the middle of the night were not from vegetation.  She pointed out that bacteria die quickly in sunlight and warm temperatures. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that the process would be to have the Health Officer adopt the regulation, then hold a public hearing, followed by placement of a warrant article to approve the adoption of the regulation by the Health Officer and the Board of Selectmen.  It would take effect, June 1, 2016, he said. 

Selectman Musselman also stated that NHDES would be asked to review the final form of the regulation.  Selectman Musselman said that, if DES gets back to them by December 18, there could be a public hearing on December 28. 

            Selectman Musselman stated that the proposal for an $80,000 warrant article is premature.  They need to summarize the data, get this going, and think about the next steps.  We want to look at how enforcement can be dealt with.  The bacteria contamination needs to be reduced.  It is not a watershed study, he said.  Editor’s note:  FB Environmental and Horsley Witten, at a meeting on October 26, 2015, had suggested that the Town borrow approximately $80,000 to study the possibility of using community septic systems in the Parsons Creek watershed to dispose of waste water.

           

Resignation of Jane Holway from the Heritage Commission (115:20 elapsed)

 

            Selectman Jenness stated this had been raised at the prior meeting but Selectman Mills stated that he would not vote for it.  She stated that Ms. Holway had reiterated that she was resigning in an e-mail.  Selectman Mills stated that he would vote against accepting the resignation.  He stated that she had called him but he had not returned the call.  He asserted that Ms. Holway was “taken to task.”  He recommended that the video of the November 19 Heritage Commission meeting be viewed.  Jane Holway was attacked that night, he asserted.

            Mae Bradshaw stated that there was no attack of her that night.  There was simply a review of this Board’s refusal not to accept her resignation.  Jane has not attended for three or four meetings.  She was offered, in the past week, a citizen position on the Demolition Review Committee, Ms. Bradshaw said.

            Selectman Musselman moved to accept Ms. Holway’s resignation with regret and thank her for her service.  Selectman Jenness seconded.  The vote was 2-1, with Selectman Mills opposed.

            Ms. Bradshaw asked whether Peter White could be appointed to the Commission.  Selectman Mills moved that the matter be tabled until the other Selectmen reviewed Mr. White’s comments about Ms. Holway.  There was no second.  Selectman Musselman stated that he did not want to watch the video.  He said he does not care if people want to be rude.  The motion failed for lack of a second.  Selectman Musselman moved to appoint Peter White to the Heritage Commission.  Selectman Jenness seconded.  The vote was 2-1, Selectman Mills voting against.

            Mae Bradshaw reported that the Tallman Award had been made to Alex Herlihy this year.  There was a celebration and a good time was had by all. 

 

Adjournment (120:30 elapsed)

 

            The meeting adjourned at approximately 10:10 p.m.