NOTES OF DECEMBER 27, 2016 RYE BOARD OF SELECTMEN MEETING
Final Revision B – Provided by the Rye Civic League
Present (clockwise around table): Town Administrator Michael Magnant, Selectmen Craig Musselman and Priscilla Jenness, Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie. Not present: Selectman Joseph Mills.
Also present and sitting in the audience: Interim Fire Chief Tom Lambert, Public Works Director Dennis McCarthy, Police Chief Kevin Walsh.
Persons present from the public included: Peter Crawford, Alex LaCasse (Portsmouth Herald), Phil Winslow.
Additional persons present from the public for the Library portion only included: Victor Azzi, Diane Bitter, Steven Borne, Frances Erlebacher, Paul Goldman, Jane Holway, Ray Jarvis, John Loftus, Ann Malpass, Monica McCarthy, James Tegeder, Joe Tucker, Ritchie White, Phil Winslow and numerous others.
Editor’s
note: For ease in finding particular
sections using the archived video and audio on the Town website, the elapsed
time is indicated. Use the slider and
the elapsed time indicated at the bottom of the video window to fast forward to
the desired section. Videos on the Town website may currently be accessed
at www.town.rye.nh.us by clicking on
“Town Hall Streaming” at the bottom left of the screen.
Follow the link
for “Town Hall Live Streaming,” then find the meeting by date under
“Previous.” The second portion of the
meeting was at the Rye Public Library and is a separate video, available by
following the link for “Rye Public Library Live Streaming.” The procedure for finding the video by date
is the same.
The Town Hall
portion of the video starts at 5:30:59 p.m. (0:00 elapsed).
The Library
portion of the video starts at 6:30:50 p.m. (0:00 elapsed).
The elapsed times
are relative to the beginnings of the respective videos.
Summary
Town Hall portion
of meeting
Announcements (0:40 elapsed)
Selectman Musselman announced
the closing of town offices on Monday, January 2, 2017.
Public Comment, Culvert Expense (1:02 elapsed)
Phil Winslow referred
to the expensive culvert replacements and the DES request for sizing based on
technical information and storm surges.
He asked that the “roads” department provide a ten year estimate of
cost. These could be substantive and could
really impact the financial position of the Town, he said. Selectman Musselman said that there is a
storm water plan that could be used to guide that. He noted that the width of the culverts at
Red Mill Ln. is set by the width of the stream, not storm surge or flow. Editor’s
note: Mr. Winslow is a member of the
Capital Improvement Plan Committee and the Planning Board.
Public Comment, $75,000 purchase of Transfer
Station land (2:53 elapsed)
Peter Crawford said
that he was mystified to see in the Herald on the 22nd an article
about the Town acquiring land that it thought it already owned for
$75,000.
Selectman Musselman
quipped “join the club” and laughed.
Mr. Crawford said that
he assumed that Selectman Musselman knew more than he did. Selectman Musselman said “yes.”
Mr. Crawford said that
this raised a number of issues. First,
this seems to be several decades old, so he wondered why the Town did not own
it by adverse possession. Editor’s note: See N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. (“RSA”) 508:2
(twenty years to bring an action to recover land). Second, it seemed like the money had already
been spent or was being spent this year.
Mr. Crawford said that he went through the budget and that he did not
see any line item for land acquisition, other than one in the conservation
budget. He stated that he did not
believe that the land was being acquired for conservation. While the Selectmen have the ability to
transfer money it has to be to a purpose that already existed, with at least
one dollar appropriated. Editor’s note: See RSA 32:10, I(e).
Mr. Crawford also referred to RSA
41:14-a. He said that the Selectmen are
allowed to acquire land as that was voted in ten years ago and the attempt to
remove that failed this year as a sentence was taken out of the warrant
article. However, the statute requires
that the Planning Board and Conservation Commission provide their
recommendations and that there be two public hearings. It does not look like that is happening, as
far as he knows, Mr. Crawford said. Mr.
Crawford asked what was going on and what could be released regarding the
matter.
Selectman Musselman
said that this was a legal settlement and asked Town Administrator Magnant what
could be said regarding it.
Mr. Magnant said that
he had been advised previously by the Town Attorney, when he had been called by
the Portsmouth Herald, not to say anything until it has found its way through
the court system and has been finalized.
Selectman Musselman
said that the case could be discussed in more detail once that had been
done.
Mr. Crawford asked
whether the case was a public file at the Rockingham Superior Court. Selectman Musselman confirmed and Town
Administrator Magnant nodded affirmatively.
Consent Agenda (6:02 elapsed)
Selectman Musselman
announced the three items: (1) a Fire Department request to expend donations in
the amount of $200; (2) request by Peter Crawford to collect signatures for
petitioned warrant articles at the Recycling Center on Saturday 12/31/16 and
Saturday 1/7/17; and (3) the appointment of Susan Shepcaro (who had served on
the Trails Subcommittee) to the Conservation Commission, with a term expiring
2019. Selectman Jenness moved to approve
the Consent Agenda items and Selectman Musselman seconded. All were in favor.
Minutes (7:04 elapsed)
The minutes of the
December 12, 2016 meeting were unanimously approved with changes. The minutes of the non-public session of the
same day were unanimously approved without changes. The minutes of the public portion of the
meeting on December 16, 2016 were unanimously approved. The minutes of the non-public session of the
same day were unanimously approved.
Mosquito Control Commission recommendation for 2017 services (12:30
elapsed)
Town Administrator
Magnant summarized, stating that the Commission was recommending that Dragon be
awarded the contract for 2017, even though the cost was $4000 higher.
Selectman Musselman
stated that he was comfortable with this.
The proposals had presented the rationale. There is a significant difference with
Dragon’s presence and they use a lot more BTI.
Mr. Magnant spoke about
the large number of complaints the prior summer.
Selectman Jenness
stated that the drought had created different problems than in prior
years. Selectman Musselman agreed,
saying that there were fewer mosquitoes in some locations and many more in
others. Town Finance Director Cyndi
Gillespie confirmed that sufficient funds were in the proposed budget to cover
the higher Dragon cost.
All were in favor of
approving the award of the contract to Dragon.
Lack of Agreement with three town employees’
unions (15:26 elapsed)
Town Administrator
Magnant announced that the agreement with the DPW employees union had fallen
through. Selectman Musselman said that
that was why Joe was going to be on the phone that evening as a third person
was going to be needed for voting purposes.
Editor’s note: Apparently Selectman Jenness was planning to
recuse herself from the vote as her son works for the DPW. That would have left the Board without a
quorum, unless Selectman Joe Mills voted.
Selectman Mills has been ill and has not been to a meeting for several
months.
Selectman Musselman said that there are no
tentative agreements with the three unions.
Editor’s note: The other two unions are for the Police and
Fire employees respectively. Selectman
Musselman said that he understood that the issue was health insurance changes,
which are rocking the world everywhere.
Town Administrator Magnant confirmed.
Selectman Musselman said that there was a committee with both the union
members and town staff. He asked whether
the consensus of that committee had not carried the day. Mr. Magnant said that it was difficult to
discuss publicly due to the ground rules, however those recommendations were a
factor in the negotiations. Editor’s note: Although not stated, there had been a concern
in prior years about the “Cadillac Tax” on expensive health plans, and possible
Town liability for the 40% excise tax.
The tax was originally to go into effect on January 1, 2018, but
Congress has delayed the tax for two years.
This would seem to be after the end of the period to be covered by the
typically three-year union agreements, however, as compensation under union
agreements typically continues (although without wage increases) in the absence
of a follow-on agreement, the Town may be trying to deal with this issue now,
lest it suddenly be on the hook for large tax payments.
Red Mill Lane culvert replacements (17:35
elapsed)
Public Works Director Dennis McCarthy
reported that the low bid had come in at $220,000 for each of the
culverts. The next higher bid was
$360,000 per culvert and the third bid was in excess of $400,000 per culvert,
he said. They were very expensive. T-Buck is the low bidder and they do good
work, Mr. McCarthy said. He stated that
$150,000 had been approved this year, but that would be gone as of December 31
if the amount is not encumbered. Editor’s note: This year, warrant article 7, passed
945-567. It provides $150,000 for the
purpose of replacing one or both culverts under Red Mill Ln. Mr. McCarthy said that $150,000 is being
carried for next year. Editor’s note: That is part of the Capital Outlay proposed
budget, not a separate warrant article.
Mr. McCarthy said that one option would be
to do nothing and leave the money appropriated this year unspent. Another option would be to encumber the funds
and add them to next year’s appropriation.
There is a way to word the warrant article so that the money could be
carried for more than one year, he said, but then acknowledged that next year’s
proposed appropriation is not a warrant article.
Mr. Magnant said that
the funds may not lapse, given that the culvert replacement is a capital
project. Editor’s note: He was apparently
referring to RSA 32:7-a, however that requires that the appropriation specify
the number of years for which it is in effect.
Funds may normally be encumbered (i.e. carried forward from the year of
appropriation to a subsequent year) when there is a legally-enforceable
contract or other obligation. While
there is an exception for special warrant articles, article 7 is listed as an
individual, not special, warrant article, in the 2015 Town Annual Report. See RSA 32:7 http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/III/32/32-7.htm
and RSA 32:3, VI http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/III/32/32-3.htm. Mr. McCarthy stated that he understood
that the appropriation would lapse if the funds are not encumbered.
Selectman Musselman
asked when T-Buck’s bid for the second culvert would go away and whether it
would need to be done in 2017.
Mr. McCarthy said that
it was an additive alternative, but in quick discussions they said it was a
good price and unless there are some big changes they do not mind waiting. Mr. McCarthy said that he would not plan on
awarding both culverts in 2017. If we
want to use the $150,000, we have to award one this year, he said.
Selectman Musselman
said that that would be with the understanding that the other $100,000 is
budgeted. He questioned whether that
could be done. Mr. McCarthy agreed.
Town Finance Director
Cyndi Gillespie said that almost $8000 of the $150,000 had been spent, leaving
$143,000. She said that she recommends
the fourth option, as $150,000 had been budgeted in Capital Outlay. We have $293,000. The Capital Outlay could be brought down from
$150,000 to $110,000, she said.
Selectman Jenness asked
whether there was a way to argue about the size. The Concord Monitor quoted Phil, saying that
a four foot by five foot culvert would be replaced by one twenty by six
feet. Editor’s note: See http://granitegeek.concordmonitor.com/2016/12/01/n-h-actually-facing-climate-change-problems-along-seacoast/ She said that this was apples and oranges
as the former is an inside measurement and the latter an outside
measurement.
Mr. McCarthy said that
it was as Selectman Musselman had said.
It is for stream morphology, he said.
In the old days a wide stream would be jammed through a narrow culvert,
which creates flow and surcharging problems and issues with wildlife. The State no longer allows that. This is actually four feet narrower than the
stream, he said.
Selectman Jenness said
that 20 by 6 sounded gigantic.
Selectman Musselman
said that it has nothing to do with climate change.
Selectman Jenness said
that the stream is five feet wide.
Mr. McCarthy disagreed,
saying that the bridge is five feet wide.
The stream is five feet wide only because it has been narrowed at that
location.
Selectman Musselman
asked what the elevation of the road is on either side of the bridge.
Mr. McCarthy said that
the elevation of the road is slightly less.
The bridge is the high point.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether the bridge was being raised.
Mr. McCarthy said that
it was not being raised. It could still
flood, but not significantly, he asserted.
In other words, not very often, he clarified. Under our ocean rise category, only the lower
culvert might flood, which means there would be access the other way. Editor’s
note: Red Mill Ln. connects with Central
Rd. at two points.
Selectman Musselman
said that he wanted to make sure that neither the road nor the bridge was not
being raised due to climate change or ocean levels.
Mr. McCarthy said that,
because the new culvert would be a concrete box, the distance from the bridge
to the top of the culvert would be a little bit less. In response to a question from Selectman
Musselman, he said that that has to do more with the nature of the
structure.
Selectman Musselman
said that he wanted to make sure that they were not raising the bridge and
having the road flood on both sides.
Selectman Jenness
referred to the possibility of exiting via Freddy Clark’s driveway. Mr. McCarthy agreed there could be access
that way.
Mr. McCarthy said that
the study that had been done showed that the only place that should be raised
was the middle portion of Locke Rd. where it comes through the marsh. The end of Locke Rd. by Old Beach Rd. stays
dry, he said. We can’t raise Harbor Rd.
as it still floods everywhere. It would
have to raised a ridiculous amount to get everyone in and out. Looking at Red Mill, it was realized that it
would still flood, but not enough to warrant the cost to resolve the problem,
he said.
Selectman Musselman
quipped that the residents have dinghies.
Mr. McCarthy asserted
that, if the flooding is tide related it would only last for a few hours.
Selectman Jenness said
that, by then, the State would be raising Route 1A.
Mr. McCarthy said that
the State would need to do something with the box culvert as there are new dam
regulations in effect. He indicated that
he was referring to the two pipes at Sawyers Beach. The fact that Eel Pond is substandard is
because it is a dam, he said.
Selectman Musselman,
with concurrence from Selectman Jenness said that, in the 1800s that was a salt
marsh. It is now a mess and is going to
get worse every year, he said.
Mr. McCarthy said that
Eel Pond used to be drained by a stream adjacent to the Beach Club and the
switching caused a problem.
Selectman Jenness said
that she had had a relative in the 1600s who kept a dam on Red Mill Ln. and was
thus able to get there with his boat.
(28:36 elapsed)
Selectman Musselman
asked whether a vote could be taken to lower the capital outlay by
$40,000. Ms. Gillespie confirmed. She said that that would go to the Budget
Committee on January 12.
Selectman Musselman
said that it was wise not to dive into two culverts. With engineering costs the total cost would
be $500,000. Mr. McCarthy agreed and
added that there would need to be a small contingency as well.
Selectman Musselman
said that Selectman Jenness’ question was a good one. He asked how hard the wetlands people had
been pushed to decrease the size of the culvert.
Mr. McCarthy said that
they had pushed pretty hard. Frank
Richardson, who had helped to get the Wallis Rd. culvert through is now gone,
he said. The people who are there are
less experienced and less sure of their positions with the State. They do not want to take chances. The approval that Frank gave them had that
unbelievable sentence that said that the culvert would not cause problems with
the neighbor who was already in court with the Town, he said. Editor’s
note: See Beliveau v. Town of Rye, case
13-cv-00402 in U.S. District Court, District of New Hampshire. The case was ultimately dismissed, but that
may have been because it was settled.
According to court filings, the suit accuses the Town, its Conservation
Commission, and the Conservation Commission’s then-Chairman Jim Raynes of
certain actions that diminished the value of the Beliveau’s property through
the relocation of Parsons Creek. The
suit also alleged that the work was done without proper permits having been
obtained. At one point, according to
court documents, the proposed settlement provided that the Town was to pay up
to $10,000 for 1814 cubic yards of fill to be deposited on Mr. Beliveau’s
property, apparently to restore land that had washed away due to the relocation
of the creek.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether Wright Pierce had had a wetlands scientist involved. Mr. McCarthy said that he understood that
they had, but they had not been able to get any traction with the State. Selectman Musselman noted a reduction from 20
feet to 16 feet. He said that he wanted
to get it below 10 feet so that it would not be considered a bridge.
Selectman Jenness asked
how many more culverts this close to the ocean would need to be replaced.
Mr. McCarthy said that
the rest that exist are not in as bad a shape, so it would be a long time. However, the culvert at Locke Rd. will need
to be redone at some point. That will
have the same issue. It is a small box
culvert in a wide natural opening. All
of them are. That’s how they used to be
designed, he said.
Selectman Jenness said
that the straight ditches in the marsh had been created after World War
II. She said that she is not sure that
those were completely natural.
Selectman Musselman
asked about the status of the dam at Burke’s Pond, which, he said was not in
good shape. Mr. McCarthy said that he
believes that that is fine and that “they” had just gotten their dam
inspection.
Selectman Musselman
asked about the culvert on Central Rd. that had recently been replaced. Mr. McCarthy said that that is on the list
but is way out. Love Ln. is a higher
priority, he said.
Mr. McCarthy said that
most of what is coming up is regular culverts, not box culverts.
Selectman Jenness moved
to reduce the Capital Outlay for Red Mill Ln. by $40,000 to $110,000. All were in favor.
Mr. McCarthy asked
about the encumbrance. Ms. Gillespie
indicated that that would be discussed later in the meeting.
Date for Town Hall bond hearing (34:21
elapsed)
Town Finance Director
stated that the Portsmouth Herald has new rules for the placement of legal
notices. If put in by noon tomorrow (the
28th), the posting would be on the third. The posting must be seven days in advance,
which would take the hearing out to January 11.
That is the night of the School Budget Public Hearing. The twelfth is the night of the Town Budget
Public Hearing. The last date on which a
bond hearing can be held is the 17th.
Selectman Musselman
said that he hoped that the decision on the content of the warrant article and
the amount would be made prior to the bond hearing.
Selectman Musselman
raised the possibility of a $3 million Conservation Bond. He asked whether they would also need to have
a bond hearing on or before the 17th. Town Administrator Magnant affirmed. He also stated that the Town Attorney had
opined that the figure for the amount of any bond should be available prior to
the hearing being noticed.
Selectman Musselman
said that, while the Town Attorney had opined that a number was needed, it
could be changed. The Town Attorney had
suggested that the initial number be high so that it could be adjusted
downwards, Selectman Musselman said.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether they hadn’t done this differently once before. “Oh, we had to go to the Legislature.” Editor’s
note: In 2014, the public hearing on the
$3 million Conservation Bond occurred after the date required by the RSAs. Initially, it was planned that there would be
a Special Town Meeting to cure the defect.
However, after recount, 2014 Article 7 passed with only six votes to
spare. There was a danger that the
Special Town Meeting would fail to cure the defect with the necessary 60
percent vote. A decision was made to
have the New Hampshire Legislature attach a non-germane amendment to an
existing bill to cure the irregularity.
See 2014 HB1124 at http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_Status/bill_docket.aspx?lsr=2162&sy=2014&sortoption=billnumber&txtsessionyear=2014&txtbillnumber=hb1124.
There was concern that there would not be
enough time to conduct a public hearing on the bond issue as well as hold the
public hearing on the town budget the same night.
(40:22 elapsed)
Selectman Musselman
questioned the advisability of noticing a bond hearing with a number prior to a
meeting to discuss which alternative to pursue, saying that it did not make any
sense. He continued, saying “You know, the whole thing doesn’t make any
sense. It’s too quick.”
It was decided that the
bond hearing would be scheduled for the 17th. If it snows the hearing would need to go
ahead, he said. Ms. Gillespie said that
the notice would need to be provided to the Herald by the fifth or the sixth.
Selectman Musselman
suggested another Selectmen’s meeting on the third to have people come in and
express their views and another one on the ninth. Then the notice could go to the Herald on the
sixth. At the end of the public
discussion, the Selectmen would consider what they want for a warrant
article. The hearing would be the 17th.
This plan appeared to
be agreed.
Budget Work Session, encumbrances (43:46 elapsed)
Selectman Musselman
said that a motion was needed to encumber the funds on Cyndi Gillespie’s
list. Editor’s list: That list
includes $264,109.00 to Specialty Vehicles, Inc. for an ambulance and
$143,230.11 to T-Buck for Red Mill Ln. Culvert Construction. Selectman Jenness moved to encumber the
total of $500,561.95. All were in
favor. Selectman Jenness moved to
encumber an addition $25,692.34 for the Sewer Fund. All were in favor.
Temporary adjournment (44:46 elapsed)
The motion to go into
temporary adjournment while they move to the Library carried unanimously.
Library portion
of meeting: Town Hall presentation and
questions
Editor’s Note: This portion of
the meeting is on a different video. See
the note at the beginning for information on accessing. The elapsed times hereinafter are relative to
the start of the Library video.
Introduction by Selectman Musselman (0:00 elapsed)
Selectman Musselman said that they had been
working on various Town Hall issues for the last four or five years. This fall they came up with the thought that
design/build proposals for either renovation or demolition and construction of
a replica would be sought. The RFP was
sent out in October to the four contractors who had bid on the previous
project. Proposals were due December
8. Two proposals, both from Hutter
Construction, were received.
The purpose of
tonight’s meeting is to hear a presentation from Hutter and to clarify it. Electronic copies of the proposals were sent
out to members of the various Town Hall committees. A copy was also posted on the Town
website. Input was received from a number
of people who had served on the committees.
Their questions were taken and a list of 15 questions was formulated for
Hutter and had been sent to them. Once
the 15 questions have been asked and responded to, the meeting will be opened
to the public, Selectman Musselman said.
The discussion tonight
should be limited to understanding their proposals, he said. There will be multiple public meetings after
this one. The first one will be Tuesday
night, January 3. That Board of
Selectmen meeting will be solely for receiving input from residents on what
they think we should do. It will be
debated again at the regular meeting on January 9. If we decide to move forward with a warrant
article, between the 3rd and the 9th a notice would be
sent to the Herald to publicize a bond hearing.
The hearing would need to be held by January 17, which means it would
need to be in the paper by the 10th and the Herald would need to get
it by the 6th. Thus, there
will be three opportunities to provide input on what we should do, he
said. Additional information will be
developed as we go. If there is to be a
warrant article, it will include construction costs as well as soft costs. Town Hall would need to be relocated
elsewhere for a year and an architect would need to be hired to deal with
construction and design issues. There
will be an estimate of those costs on the 3rd, with refined estimates on the 9th
and the 17th, he said.
Ray Jarvis asked why
there was only one bid.
Selectman Musselman
described the prior process which led to four bids and the $4.1 million warrant
article. Editor’s note: There were
actually only three bids received as Milestone, which had also provided cost
estimates to SMP, the architect, during 2013-2014, declined to bid. At the bid opening on January 7, 2015, the
following were the results:
Hutter DEW Meridian
Base bid
$3,240,000 $3,947,000 $3,856,550
Total of alternates
$ 281,800 $
260,850 $ 261,680
Bid with all alternates $3,521,800 $4,207,850 $4,098,230
The Town Hall
Committee decided to proceed with Hutter as the low bidder and to select some,
but not all, of the alternates.
Alternates are separately itemized costs for discrete aspects of the
construction that the town could choose to accept, or not, as it chose. With the selected alternates, Hutter’s bid
came to $3,389,600. The warrant article
was for $4.1 million, indicating that the additional costs to be borne by the
town for architectural and project management assistance, furniture,
contingency, etc. amounted to more than $700,000.
Selectman Musselman said that they had
already heard from two of the potential bidders that they were too busy and
would not be responding. On December 8
they found that Hutter was the only one submitting a proposal. Hutter was the low bidder previously by quite
a bit. They had thought that SMP, who
was the previous architect, would join one of the design/build teams, but they
were too busy to devote time to the project, so Hutter has been working with
another architect.
Presentation of Eric Hastings of Hutter (10:10 elapsed)
Editor’s note: According to a
January 26, 2015 item on Hutter’s website at http://www.hutterconstruction.com/News.asp,
Mr. Hastings joined Hutter as Director of Estimating. This date was shortly after submission of the
prior Hutter bid.
Mr. Hastings said he had been doing this
type of work for 37 years. Mr. Hutter
showed a drawing of the building and pointed out the building and the
addition. Editor’s note: The video shows
that the roof drops slightly when moving from the main building to the area
over the stage, and then again slightly when moving from the stage area to the
addition. While the area over the stage
currently has a hip roof, all three sections have gabled roofs in the
drawing. The drawing and floor plan
presented on the screen by Mr. Hastings appeared to match those in the bid
available on the Town website at http://town.rye.nh.us/Pages/RyeNH_BComm/BoS/Hutter
Proposal for Rye Town Hall.pdf.
Mr. Hastings started by
explaining the renovation option proposal.
Mr. Hastings said that they had planned to take off a small portion at
the east end which is about 35 feet wide and 9 feet deep. Editor’s
note: These are sometimes referred to as
the “porches” and are used for storage of Building Department files on the
first floor, and until recently, the Recreation Department on the second
floor. That was done to maximize the
size of the addition so that the systems and functions that need to be in the
new construction could be contained there, he said. The center area and main building on the
first floor would be gutted out with all new rooms. The two spiral stairways would remain
intact. To meet NFPA codes the stairways
would need to be enclosed for fire protection.
Mr. Hastings then pointed to the Town Clerk, Planning and Building
Inspection areas on the first floor.
There would also be two new bathrooms and a break area, a brand new
mechanical room, electrical room, mail area, elevator and additional stairwell
that is needed. He pointed to a new
vestibule and entrance on the south side of the addition.
Mr. Hastings responded
to a question from Ray Jarvis regarding the Town Clerk and Planning service
counters.
In response to a
question from John Loftus, Mr. Hastings indicated that steel I beams are
planned only for the new construction option.
However, there are new steel columns on the north and south outside
walls that go up two stories, he said.
Selectman Musselman
pointed out that the building had not been designed yet. Mr. Hastings confirmed that nothing was cast
in stone.
(17:40 elapsed)
Turning to the second
floor, Mr. Hastings pointed to the large
public meeting in the addition on the second floor, the stairs, elevator and
lobby. There is a winding sidewalk going
to the rear parking lot as in the prior proposal. There is the stage and a lift at the back to
bridge the 2.5 to 3 foot height difference.
The front of the stage is still there but enclosed with a clear glass
wall so it could be used as a meeting room.
He pointed to the Town Administrator’s Office, Assessor’s Office,
Finance, and a small office for part-time use by the Selectmen and a small
Treasurer’s Office. He pointed to the
spiral stairs and two bathrooms at the west end.
(20:20 elapsed)
Mr. Hastings then
showed the floor plans for the new build option. He pointed to the new columns and beams and
the issue of first floor headroom. The
second floor is the same but the toilets were moved to reduce the cost. The Treasurer’s Office was moved and enlarged
but the rest basically remained the same.
The meeting room is somewhat smaller than the stage in the other option.
Compiled questions (22:45 elapsed)
Selectman Musselman
passed out copies of the questions posed by Town Committee members, apologizing
that there were not enough copies for everyone in the audience.
Selectman Musselman
pointed out that there had been little interaction with Hutter as is customary
with design/build bids. Town
Administrator Magnant met with the architect for about an hour to show him
through the building, he said. The
programming and previous design were shown to him.
Selectman Musselman
asked about the flexibility to move the space around without impacting the
proposed price. Mr. Hastings said that
there was, however when circulation is changed, doors may need to be moved and
there may be issues with load bearing walls.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether the second floor offices have ceilings or whether they would be
open to the tin ceiling above. Mr.
Hastings said that the walls go all of the way up, but the ceilings are exposed
in the corridor. Selectman Musselman
asked about the possibility of moving Building upstairs and Town Administrator
and Finance downstairs. Mr. Hastings
expressed concern about relocating the Town Clerk and vault upstairs. Selectman Musselman said that the Town Clerk
would remain downstairs and they have budgeted digitizing all of the Building
Department files. Mr. Hastings expressed
concern about the weight. Selectman
Musselman said that the storage room would be gone. He asked Town Administrator Magnant whether
enough money had been budgeted to digitize all of the files. Mr. Magnant expressed uncertainty, but said
that the lion’s share could be done. His
biggest concern is the staff working in modulars during construction, he said.
Selectman Musselman
asked about the location of the second floor ceiling in the new building
option. Mr. Hastings said that it was at
the top of the monumental windows, about twelve feet above the floor.
Selectman Musselman asked
about first floor ceiling heights. Mr.
Hastings said that, for the renovation, they would pretty much be stuck with an
eight foot ceiling except that ductwork would be hidden along the walls of the
corridors, coming down to about seven feet, six inches. Mr. Hastings said that the distance between
floors is only about nine feet, six inches.
He said that the new construction option could have the floor raised six
inches without moving the windows. The
building would look the same.
Selectman Musselman
asked what was proposed with respect to the monumental windows in the
renovation option. He said that the
previous proposal had allowed for use of the existing windows with double
panes. Mr. Hastings said that new Marvin
windows had been provided throughout.
The option of window renovation would still be available, however he had
not been able to get renovators to respond with costs at this stage of the
process. In response to a question from
the audience regarding other possible suppliers, Mr. Hastings said that he had
found that Marvin was the way to go.
(30:45 elapsed)
Selectman Musselman
asked whether it was reasonable to scrape and paint the siding when the
previous design included the replacement of all siding. How far does $15,000 go, he asked. Mr. Hasting said that it would only provide
for 20-25 percent of the cost. To keep
the cost down, I chose not to rip it all off, but rather try to save it, he
said. He also said that the south wall
could be replaced and the north wall left.
Selectman Musselman
said that the proposal indicates that there would be no backup furnace for the
HVAC system, even though the backup system is needed now to deal with peak
demands. He also asked whether the
geothermal system was proposed to service the entire building and whether the
gas units could provide for peak needs.
Mr. Hastings said that the existing geothermal system was planned to
deal with the existing building. They
were comfortable doing that as about 10 percent of the square footage was taken
off, replacement windows would seal the building up and there would be new
insulation in the walls and attic. There
would still need to be load calculations.
He said that, if it looks like it is going to be close, they would
provide for supplemental units.
Selectman Musselman
asked about protection from falling ice and snow. He referred to the need the prior year to put
up scaffolding to protect people from falling ice. Mr. Hastings said that, with proper
insulation, there should not be icicles.
The canopy on the new building goes out five feet. However, the ice buildup may have to be
removed.
Selectman Musselman
asked about the potential additional costs to remove lead paint and light
ballasts. Mr. Hastings said that they
followed the report by RPF Associates, which is a top notch firm in New
Hampshire. They are very thorough, so
everything should be provided for, he said.
Selectman Musselman
asked about prior renovations. Mr.
Hastings referred to the Mark Wentworth home in Portsmouth. Selectman Musselman chuckled and said that
they are having interesting dealings with that organization. Editor’s
note: See earlier in these notes. The Town has agreed to pay $75,000 to
purchase approximately 1 acre at the Transfer Station that it thought that it
already owned, from Wentworth Senior Living.
Mr. Hastings referred to a substantial renovation job there.
Selectman Musselman
asked about risks that might not currently be known. Mr. Hastings referred to the possibility of
unseen ledge and boulders when the slab on the first floor is removed. He raised the possibility that the slab might
have been poured over loam 150-200 years ago or buried stumps. He referred also to the possibility of
termites or carpenter ants when the drywall and plaster are removed.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether a five percent contingency was adequate to deal with
unknowns. Mr. Hastings said that he
did.
(38:03 elapsed)
Victor Azzi asked about
Hutter’s contingency. Mr. Hastings said
that he had provided his own contingency.
He provided details on what he had excluded and included and what would
come out of his contingency versus the Town’s.
He said that they had provided for the building to be jacked up so that
the steel columns could be installed.
Selectman Musselman
asked what components of the existing building would remain. Mr. Hastings referred to the entire perimeter
except for the drywall and plaster finish on the inside. He said that the windows would be
removed. The entire framing on the
second floor would remain. The two
spiral stairs would remain. The slab
through the main building excluding the front portion where the spiral stairs
are would be replaced. The three
interior walls running north/south would remain on both levels. Other than that it would be completely
emptied. The roof and shingles stay on
the main building, but not the stage area and addition. He asked how old the roof was. The response was five years. He said that it should not be difficult to
match in that case.
Selectman Musselman
asked about the septic system and what EnviroTube is. He noted that the previous Building Committee
had found EnviroSeptic to be unacceptable.
Mr. Hastings said that there was no need for a concrete chamber septic
system in a grass area so he was able to save $13,000 by eliminating that.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether a basement had been considered for mechanicals and storage and,
if so, why a basement is not proposed.
Mr. Hastings said he did not even consider a basement as enough room was
given to him in the addition for the stairwell, elevator, electrical and
mechanical rooms plus the meeting room on the second floor. The bearing wall between the stage area and
the addition only goes down three feet.
If a basement were to be added, that whole end of the building would
need to be shored up. It would be way
too costly, he said. Working within the
20 foot extension and adding the removal of the nine feet of the existing
building gave them all of the room that they needed, he said.
(43:22 elapsed)
Selectman Musselman
asked whether the fire protection system would be wet or dry and who would
design it. Mr. Hastings said that it
would be a wet system throughout the building except in the attic where it
would be a dry system. Superior Fire
Protection in Auburn will design and the Rye Fire Department would review
it. Selectman Musselman asked whether
the wet system would freeze, absent a generator, in the event of a prolonged
power outage. Mr. Hastings said that it
would take a long one and that the building would be well insulated.
Victor Azzi asked
whether, in the existing building, the underside of the roof or the floor of
the attic would be insulated. Mr.
Hastings said that R-20 spray foam insulation would be provided for the walls
and R-40 blown in cellulose was provided above the tin ceiling. The attic space would remain cold. That is where the dry sprinkler system would
be. Any wet pipes would be on the warm
side of the insulation, he said.
John Loftus asked about
the type of piping. Selectman Musselman
said that it had not been designed yet.
Mr. Hastings said that he would look into the issue and get back to Mr.
Loftus.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether the spiral staircases would be grandfathered. Mr. Hastings said that he would not doubt
that, but he would need to check with the local code official. He said that the entire design had better be
code compliant as that is owed to the Town.
Selectman Musselman
asked whether the proposal incorporates the RFP. Mr. Hastings said that he could not confirm
as Hutter’s contracts official has not reviewed.
Questions from the public (48:09 elapsed)
Phil Winslow asked
about the difference in usable space for offices and meeting rooms, compared to
circulation, between the renovation and new build options. Mr. Hastings said that he would go back and
check it, but circulation is typically in the 30 percent range. He said that the designs are almost
twins. The Treasurer’s Office is bigger
and the bathrooms were moved because the stage area was shrunk, he said.
Frances Erlebacher said
that the front door in the new building looked like it was glass. She asked whether something typical from the
period could have been chosen. Mr.
Hastings said that that could be looked at.
An aluminum entrance was chosen for durability. Ms. Erlebacher said that most people in town
wanted to keep the style.
Ms. Erlebacher asked
why the offices were located away from the first floor entrance to the new
building. Mr. Hastings said that the addition
is directly across the parking lot from where water, sewer and electrical
service would come in underground. The
best way to do it is to bring those into an area that is newly constructed
area. You would not even know that the
mechanical and electrical rooms are there as they would be closed off.
Selectman Musselman
said that there was a discussion yet to occur with the architect and town staff
on moving things around.
Mike Steinberg asked
about the life span of the building. He
said that there is no room for growth.
The building is maxed out right now, he said. He asked about the square footage per floor
and the possibility of a basement. Mr.
Hastings said that there are 3950 sq. ft. per floor, 7900 sq. ft. total. Mr. Steinberg argued that an additional 3950
sq. ft. would provide a lot of space for relocating functions. Then there would not be a need for another
addition in 10-20 years. There is not
enough room for expansion now, he said.
The basement could be used for mechanical and storage areas, he
said. He asked about rearranging the
second floor of the new building so that a partition could be removed, creating
a larger room. Mr. Hastings said that
that was definitely a possibility.
Victor Azzi asked
whether there were steps at the entrance to the new addition. Mr. Hastings responded that it was
flush. Mr. Azzi asked about the
enclosure of the curvilinear stairs in closets in the design of the renovation,
but the stairs in the new building design not being enclosed in a comparable
way. Mr. Hastings said that new
construction would allow that to be fire rated.
Mr. Azzi said that entering a closet to see the beginning of the stair
makes no architectural sense.
Mr. Azzi asked whether
the design had been done by an architect.
Mr. Hastings said that Paul Addison is working with them and did the
design. He is not present as it is a
tough week, he said.
(59:10 elapsed)
Ray Jarvis asked about
the expected longevity of one proposal compared to the other. He asked how long it would be before major
expenses would need to be incurred. Mr.
Hastings said that the foundation, which is a combination of concrete and
stone, had been there for close to 200 years and has held up well. In the absence of an earthquake or sewer line
failure, he does not see why the building would not remain intact for another
50 years. The new area would easily last
for 100 years. He acknowledged that, if
the whole building were redone, it would last for 100 years. He referred to better building techniques being
used now.
Peter Crawford said
that, looking at the plans, it looks like the roof on the addition is maybe
three or four feet lower. He said that
he recalls that the ceiling height is about 19 feet in the main building. Mr. Hastings said that it is 17 feet 6
inches. He said that, the longer the
addition is the more it is appropriate to break up the lines and there is no
need to make the addition as high.
Mr. Crawford said that
he was suggesting the opposite, which is that it seems that the addition could
be lower. Using the 17.5 foot number and
dropping back to 9 feet, the addition could be about 8.5 feet lower.
Selectman Musselman
said that, with a meeting room of that size, you do not want an 8.5 to 9 foot
ceiling. Editor’s note: The Library
meeting room in which this meeting was occurring has a ceiling 7 feet 8 inches
high. Mr. Crawford suggested that it
could be 10 feet. Selectman Musselman
said 10 plus.
Mr. Hastings referred
to the space needed for the elevator shaft.
Mr. Crawford asked whether the elevator could be moved, swapping it with
the stairs and be able to lower the ceiling height. Editor’s
note: He meant the roof height. Mr. Crawford said that, perhaps he was
wrong, but he understood that a hydraulic elevator did not need space above
it. Mr. Hastings said that he needed 12
foot 3 inch clearance from the second floor to the top of the elevator shaft
for safety space in case someone is up there when the elevator ascends. He said that the lower level of the addition
is raised by ramping up by about a foot between the existing building and the
addition.
Mr. Crawford said that
some might say that the addition might look more subservient if the roof line
on the addition was a little bit lower.
He asked what would need to be done to accomplish that.
Selectman Musselman
said that he was shocked that the Rye Heritage Commission had looked at it and
said that both alternatives looked subservient and appropriate. He said that he was very surprised. I was surprised that they agreed. They haven’t agreed to anything yet, he
said. He attempted to call on a woman in
the back.
Mr. Crawford
interrupted, saying that he had asked a question a requested a response before
moving on.
Mr. Hastings said that
he wouldn’t recommend lowering the roof.
He referred to the need for a higher ceiling in the meeting room and
also over the lift. If someone is
standing on the platform, which goes up about two feet, you don’t want them
punching into the ceiling, he said. Editor’s note: If the ceiling is 10 feet high, that would
take an individual who is 8 feet tall. Mr.
Hastings said that it could be moved down a bit and that could certainly be
looked at.
Tricia, a woman in the
back, asked about the noise with the tin ceiling. Selectman Musselman said that the acoustics
when it was a Selectman’s space was not good.
She asked a follow-on question about maintenance under the two
options. Mr. Hastings said that it would
be painted pine or cedar clapboards with either option. To avoid changing from the current historic
look, he didn’t dare pick vinyl or aluminum.
He acknowledged that it would not be maintenance-free.
(69:05 elapsed)
Joe Tucker asked what
concessions would be needed with a renovation that would not be needed with new
construction. He gave the example of new
construction starting with crushed stone and perimeter drains and an
elastomeric membrane on the outside of the foundation with a fifteen year
warranty for waterproofing. He asked
whether there was a plan to excavate around the existing foundation to
waterproof it. Mr. Hastings said that
that was not planned. He said that the
new slab would have 8 inches of crushed stone with piping for radon. The old plan showed a French drain around the
back side which was retained. In the
addition the foundation would be waterproofed, he said.
Mr. Tucker said that,
if radiant heat is to be used, insulation under the floor is needed. There would not be adequate space between the
floors if recessed lighting were to be used above. Mr. Hastings agreed that the space was very
limited. With new construction the
joists could be deeper, Mr. Tucker said.
Mr. Hastings asked whether radiant heat was being considered. Selectman Musselman said that it was not.
Mr. Hastings said that
he had used steel beams in the new construction option to limit the span of the
joists and the space needed if he is required to keep the look and the overall
height. Right now the window sill is
about 30 inches high. That could perhaps
be altered by six inches to pick up more room, although that has not been
priced, he said.
Town Finance Director
Cyndi Gillespie asked whether access to the belfry via the spiral stairs would
remain. Mr. Hastings said that the
bathrooms at that level had been eliminated, but he planned to leave the
stairwell there. Ms. Gillespie said that
there is a small storage room there. Editor’s note: This has been used in the past for the
storage of old financial records. Selectman
Musselman pointed out that the space would be unheated.
Steven Borne asked what
the cost would be if the expansion in the back was not needed. Selectman Musselman said that then there
would be no meeting room, elevator, stairway or mechanical room. Mr. Borne said that he was looking for the
cost to renovate the existing building.
Mr. Hastings said that it would not be to code. Mr. Borne said that there was plenty of space
in town, but the building is falling apart.
He attempted to ask for Mr. Hastings’ best estimate but Selectman
Musselman said that that was another alternative for discussion on the third
and the ninth. Mr. Hastings said that,
if he put a number on that, it would make the rest of the building
unusable.
John Loftus asked about
the foundation. He said that the south
wall foundation was to be removed and that it has had remedial work over the
years. He asked about possible problems
with the rest of the rubble foundation and the likelihood of having to replace
the entire foundation. Mr. Hastings said
that he could not answer that, however the majority of the building must be
safety jacked up. Mr. Loftus argued that
there was a possibility that the entire building would need to be jacked up to
replace the foundation. Mr. Hastings
appeared to agree and asked about the age of the concrete foundation on the
north side. Town Administrator Magnant
said that the records had been reviewed and that nothing was found on
this. Mr. Hastings said that Steffensen
Engineering had done a thorough job and, if they were concerned about it, they are
the type of company that would have recommended fixing it.
Victor Azzi asked what
would happen if, after jacking up the building and removing the south wall it
is determined that the rest of the foundation needs to be replaced. He asked whether the cost would come out of
the construction contingency or the owner’s contingency. Mr. Hastings said that it would come out of
the owner’s contingency as he had been given explicit instructions to just
replace the south wall. Mr. Azzi asked
about the foundation. Selectman
Musselman said that, in the prior design, the south wall was bid as an
option. Editor’s note: The Hutter bid
for that option was $15,800, the DEW bid $26,800 and the Meridian bid
$46,000. The others walls are more
substantial and visible, except below grade, Selectman Musselman said. He said that a sub grade issue is not likely
on this site. The building has been in
place since 1839 and there is no indication of settlement of the other
walls. It is more likely that the slab
had been poured on native sand than on loam.
Mr. Azzi said that most people are concerned about possible
surprises. The North and East walls have
lateral pressures because of the slope so it’s possible that the concrete slab
is helping those foundation walls to remain stable, he said.
Mr. Azzi asked about
the shutters shown and whether they were wood or plastic. Mr. Hastings said that they were wood. He asked about the upper level floor plan of
the existing building and access via the curvilinear stairs. He asked about the benefit of preserving the
curve of the stage and the proscenium arch if it is to be covered in
glass. Selectman Musselman said that the
Heritage Commission wanted there to be nothing to preclude the return of the
stage to its prior use. The question was
whether anything irreversible was being done to the Great Hall, he said.
(87:00 elapsed)
Ritchie White asked
what would happen if the expenses exceeded the five percent contingency. Selectman Musselman said that it would need
to be worked out with the design/build contractor. There is not the choice of spending more
money.
Monica McCarthy asked
about the amount of additional usable space.
Mr. Hastings pointed to the addition and said that it is 2400 sq.
ft. Selectman Musselman said that that
includes the nine foot bump out being removed.
There is a total of 7900 sq. ft. on the two floors. Ms. McCarthy said that the incremental square
footage is about 2400. Selectman
Musselman agreed. He said that this is
scaled down to the minimum needed.
Recreation and Sewer have been moved out. This is the minimum that we can get by with
if we’re going to renovate for Town Hall purposes, he said. Ms. McCarthy asked why a larger building
wouldn’t be built. Selectman Musselman
said that they had tried once before and it cost more and nobody wanted to pay
more, and still do not. With the bump
out in the back there is concern that, if it gets longer, its not
architecturally going to match the existing building, he said.
Ann Malpass asked why the
new building was going to cost more than the renovation. Mr. Hastings said that it would cost $50,000
to remove the existing building. A new
foundation would be needed. There is a
whole new second floor structure compared to saving the existing structure. There is a whole new roof structure, tower
and roofing. Selectman Musselman said
that it was a better building, but costs a little bit more.
Paul Goldman referred
to the $200,000 higher price for the new building, and said that that is a
certainty with no surprises. Mr.
Hastings said that there would be much stronger certainty. Mr. Goldman referred to previous questions
about expansion. He asked the Town
Administrator and Town Finance Director how long the designs, which are
essentially equivalent, would carry them into the future.
Mr. Magnant said that
the greatest constraint is in the Building Department and there is room for a
second Building Inspector there. The
space for the Town Clerk’s office is adequate.
A second person will eventually be needed for Finance or the Selectmen’s
Office. Right now there is space for
that in these designs. Beyond that it
would be tight. What is going to help is
scanned and digitized records. Selectman
Musselman referred to people doing things online. Forty years from now, millennials will be old
and they will be acting differently, he said.
Diane Bitter asked
about the stage being lost, but there being a large meeting room in the new
section. She suggested moving the Town
Administrator’s office and two other offices to the addition so that the
original function of the stage could be retained. Someone asked how often the stage would be
used. Ms. Bitter said that it is not the
stage but the room. If it has that
capacity there are many more options as it would fit more people, she said.
Selectman Musselman
said that when it had been used that way, it was half of the room, the back
side. The acoustics were not good. A large space would be heated and not used efficiently. Mel Low confirmed. Editor’s
note: Mel Low used to be a Selectman. Mr. Low said that sometimes the public was up
high and would talk down to them. There
was laughter.
Selectman Musselman
said that the previous design had the Great Hall as well as a more
accommodating meeting space. It is an
idea, however, he said.
Victor Azzi said that,
whichever option is chosen, the cost would be close to $500 per sq. ft. for
about 8000 sq. ft. of gross area. That
is a lot of money and a high unit cost.
Once the soft costs and contingencies are added, the cost is between
$400 and $500, and probably closer to $500.
Mr. Azzi said that the massing of the proposed building is in no way
pleasing and not what we’re accustomed to seeing. It is not anywhere close to the existing
building. He suggested optimizing the
design to maximize the usable area with a building of comparable massing and
comparable design. He asked what 8000
sq. ft. of new construction with a suitable aspect ratio would cost.
Selectman Musselman
reposed the question and asked what Hutter would have done on the site if 8000
sq. ft. were required without the constraint of using the same size as the
existing building with the bump out and the same elevations. Mr. Hastings said that the per square foot
cost is being warped by the design fees that are not normally a construction
cost. In addition, there are demolition
and asbestos removal costs. There is
about $550,000 of the $3.1 million that is not construction cost, he said.
Mr. Azzi said that he
is talking about the project cost which must be borne by the owners, of which
there are a number here.
Mr. Hastings said that
he does not think that the construction costs are out of line. It is not a $500 per square foot
project. Selectman Musselman said that
it would not be $500 per sq. ft. as the cost would not be $4 million. He promised that the warrant article would
not be $4 million.
John Loftus said that
last year he had suggested three stories with a full basement and full
attic. The mechanical facilities could
go in the basement. Mr. Azzi said that
that would be an optimal design.
Selectman Musselman interrupted and said that that was an issue for a
later meeting.
Peter Crawford said
that he had used $3.2 million for the project cost, added $300,000 to the
Hutter bid and came up with $400 per sq. ft. for the 8000 sq. ft.
building. Taking the $4.1 million which
was the warrant article last time and the 12,500 sq. ft. size, the cost of that
would have been $328 per sq. ft. The
cost per sq. ft. has gone up very significantly, he said. He asked for an explanation.
Mr. Hastings stated
that their bid last time was $3,240,000.
Selectman Musselman confirmed. Editor’s note: That figure is before alternates. See the note above providing detailed bid
data. The selected alternates added
$149,600, including $15,800 for a new concrete foundation on the South side,
$43,500 for a new concrete slab, $72,700 for a generator and $17,600 for
lightning protection. It appears that
the first two are also part of the current proposal but the third is not. It is unclear whether or not the proposal
includes lightning protection. Mr.
Hastings referred to 11,000 sq. ft. of construction. Editor’s note: That is incorrect. Taking measurements off the large-scale
drawings to the nearest 1/32 of an inch yields 12,619 sq. ft. of space,
including 200 sq. ft. for the connector between the buildings and 413 sq. ft.
for the third floor of the existing building which was to include new
bathrooms. Mr. Hastings said that
they are now responsible for design and engineering costs that they normally do
not carry. Things change a lot in two
years in terms of material and subcontractor pricing. There is a lot of work out there now, he
said. Construction costs are up. We went after this very hard and attached
reasonable costs. We think we have the
right number for this project. This is
our type of work. We love jobs like
this. We’ll stand behind our number, he
said.
Selectman Musselman
said that the meeting on January 3 would probably be at the Library and at 6:30
p.m.
Adjournment (107:45 elapsed)
The meeting adjourned
at approximately 8:17 p.m.