NOTES OF NOVEMBER 16, 2017 RYE BUDGET COMMITTEE MEETING

Final Revision C – Provided by the Rye Civic League

Present (clockwise around table): Rye Water District Commissioners’ Representative Ralph Hickson, Member Mae Bradshaw, Alleged Rye Beach Village District Commissioners’ Alternate Representative Shawn Crapo, Clerk Peter Crawford, Chairman Jaci Grote, Vice Chairman Peggy Balboni, Selectmen’s Representative Phil Winslow, Member Doug Abrams, Member Ray Jarvis. Not present: Jenness Beach Village District Commissioners’ Representative Randy Crapo, School Board Representative Kevin Brandon.

Also present and sitting in the audience: Town Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie, Town Administrator Michael Magnant, and other department heads as indicated.

Editor’s note: For ease in finding particular sections using the archived video and audio on the Town website, the elapsed time is indicated. Use the slider and the elapsed time indicated at the bottom of the video window to fast forward to the desired section. Videos on the Town website may currently be accessed at www.town.rye.nh.us by clicking on “Town Hall Streaming” at the bottom left of the screen. Follow the link for “Town Hall Live Streaming,” then find the meeting by date under “Previous.”

The video starts at 8:31:23 a.m. (0:00 elapsed). There was a break for lunch at 225:27 elapsed that affects the relationship between the clock time and the elapsed time after that point inasmuch as the video was not running during the lunch break.

Summary

1. Shawn Crapo was seated and permitted to vote over the objection of one member who had provided a six page memorandum on why that would be unlawful. It argued that the statute requires village district representatives to the Budget Committee to be appointed by their respective boards, and that Mr. Crapo is not a commissioner and thus has no “respective board” that may lawfully appoint him.

2. Most proposed expenditures were approved and the meeting ended at approximately 3:00 p.m. despite being planned to end at 4:30 p.m.

3. There was one vote against $24,000 for the purchase of a town-wide vehicle to be used, in part, for the transportation of injured seagulls. The member voting against noted the lack of economic analysis and conflicting information on the mileage of police cruisers when they are turned over for use by town departments.

4. A member unsuccessfully sought to table most Capital Outlay requests so that they could be considered together with a possible $5.8 million in warrant articles.

5. The budget that would have added a “jack-of-all-trades” for Public Works was tabled pending further discussion between the department head and the Selectmen.

6. Unlike during consideration of the 2017 budget, Shawn Crapo recused himself from voting on the Recreation budget after a member so requested. Mr. Crapo’s company holds the contract for mowing at the Recreation Area.

7. The Library budget was not considered as there is, as yet, no consideration by the Selectmen of it.

8. There was one vote against, and one abstention, related to the Land Management budget because of reductions and/or insufficient funds to conduct water testing for PFCs and monitoring Parsons Creek for bacterial contamination.

9. There was one vote against the Legal budget by a member who felt that the town was not well-served by the current town attorney.

10. There were two votes against the Town Hall budget by members asserting that there were insufficient maintenance funds to properly maintain the building.

Introduction and Discussion of the seating of Alleged Alternate Member Shawn Crapo (0:00 elapsed)

Chairman Jaci Grote called the meeting to order at 8:31 a.m. and the pledge of allegiance was recited.

Peter Crawford then said that Mr. Crapo had just arrived.

Ms. Grote interrupted Mr. Crawford and explained that, at that the last meeting, there was a concern by a Committee Member that Mr. Crapo was not a legal representative of the Rye Beach District. It was requested that the Committee see the letter that stated Attorney Donovan’s position on this matter. That was shared with the Committee. One of the Committee members also wanted to see the minutes of the Commissioner meetings that appointed Mr. Crapo. Those meetings (sic) were sent to me and the Chairman of the Committee (sic), Frank Drake, asked that I read them into the record, she said.

Ms. Grote read from the minutes of the November 3, 2016 and November 4, 2017 Rye Beach Village Commissioners’ meetings that each purported to appoint Mr. Crapo as an Alternate. She passed out copies of the minutes. Ms. Grote said that that was Ms. Bradshaw’s concern. Ms. Grote said that she did not want to spend a lot of time on this as we have a full day ahead of us. We have the approval of the Town Attorney and this confirmation, she said.

Editor’s note: Shawn Crapo was previously a member-at-large of the Budget Committee, but his term expired in 2016. At the March 8, 2016 Town Election, he came in third in a three-way race for two available three year positions on the Budget Committee, receiving 769 votes. Peggy Balboni received 1011 votes and Mae Bradshaw received 841 votes. The latter two persons were thus elected.

(3:38 elapsed)

Clerk Peter Crawford said that he would like to pass out a memorandum. He said that, because of the RSA on communication outside of meetings, he had been able to send it to only five of the 11 members, the three officers, Jaci Grote, Peggy Balboni and of course himself, and to Mae Bradshaw and to Shawn Crapo. He passed out copies to the members and the alleged alternate member and to Town Administrator Mike Magnant and Town Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie.

Ms. Grote said that this was a six page document and asked whether Mr. Crawford could provide a summary.

(4:39 elapsed)

Mr. Crawford said that he would not cite from Attorney Donovan’s opinion unless the Committee went into a non-public session as it had been requested that it not be revealed. That opinion was apparently written after I raised the issue of whether Mr. Crapo could serve with the Selectmen last year, before I was on the Budget Committee, he said. Based on the timing, the opinion was obtained as a result of that, not based on any request by the Budget Committee. This is not an opinion by the Budget Committee’s attorney, it is an opinion by the Town’s attorney who has certain conflicts of interest with respect to this issue, he said.

The Budget Committee on budgetary matters is superior to the Town. It sets the budget for the Town, the School and the Village District.

Shawn Crapo interrupted and said “incorrect.” It recommends, he said. Editor’s note: Mr. Crapo is incorrect. N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. (“RSA”) 32:16, I provides that one of the duties of the Budget Committee is to “prepare the budget as provided in RSA 32:5…” for “submission to each annual or special meeting of the voters…” RSA 32:18 provides that the amount appropriated at any annual meeting of the town, or a subdivision, the total amount appropriated may not generally, with limited exceptions, exceed 110 percent of the amount recommended by the Budget Committee. Mr. Crawford asked Chairman Grote that he be allowed to finish. Ms. Grote agreed and asked Mr. Crapo to allow Mr. Crawford to continue.

(5:56 elapsed)

Mr. Crapo nevertheless continued to speak and accused Mr. Crawford of a personal attack that began, he alleged, at a Budget Committee meeting in 2016. He acknowledged, however, that the questioning by Mr. Crawford of the process was not personal.

(6:29 elapsed)

Mr. Crawford said that he would read from the applicable statute.

Ms. Grote said that she just wanted to know what it was that Mr. Crawford disagreed with, because “Attorney Donovan is the Town Attorney and I will abide by the Town Attorney’s position…” She said that although she respected the work that Mr. Crawford had done, she was not going to change her mind.

Mr. Crawford said that it was very telling that she had prejudged the matter.

Ms. Grote denied that, pointing out that she had the memo.

(7:04 elapsed)

Mr. Crawford read from the applicable statute, explaining that it talked about the Budget Committee membership:

“[o]ne member of the governing body of the municipality and, if the municipality is a town, one member of the school board of each school district wholly within the town and one member of each village district wholly within the town, all of whom shall be appointed by their respective boards to serve for a term of one year and until their successors are qualified. Each such member may be represented by an alternate member designated by the respective board, who shall, when sitting, have the same authority as the regular member.” Editor’s note: See RSA 32:15, I(b).

Mr. Crawford raised his voice as he read the underlined portion.

Mr. Crapo again attempted to interrupt. Mr. Crawford asked to be allowed to finish.

(7:49 elapsed)

Ms. Grote said that she wanted Mr. Crawford to finish in seven minutes.

Mr. Crawford said that he “may have to move to overrule the Chairman on that because I’m going to…”

Ms. Grote attempted to interrupt Mr. Crawford.

Mr. Crawford raised his voice and said to Ms. Grote “Madam Chairman.” Ms. Grote pointed her finger at Mr. Crawford and said “don’t yell at me.”

Mr. Crawford said, emphatically “don’t interrupt me.”

Mr. Crapo said that Mr. Crawford was trying to put forward a document that is his own opinion and which is grossly out of context.

Mr. Crawford stated that he had the floor.

Mr. Crapo continued to talk, raising his voice and saying that the point of the RSA is to construct a Zoning Board (sic) that represents the Town.

Mr. Crawford asked Ms. Grote to cut off Mr. Crapo and let him finish.

Mr. Crapo continued talking referring to the Zoning Ordinance (sic) and excluding people.

(8:29 elapsed)

Ms. Grote interrupted, looked at her watch, and said “Shawn, he has five minutes.” Editor’s note: Note the passage of only 40 seconds from the time that Ms. Grote had said that Mr. Crawford had seven minutes.

Mr. Crawford said that, in his research, he had discovered that, in 1993, the entire Chapter 32 of the RSAs was reenacted. Prior to 1993, RSA 32:2, which is where the provision was, read as follows:

“The budget committee shall consist of 3, 6, 9 or 12 members-at-large as the meeting adopting the provisions hereof shall by vote determine, and one member chosen by the school board of each school district wholly within said town, and one member of the board of commissioners of each village district wholly within said town to be designated by said board, and one member of the board of selectmen to be designated by said board.”

Mr. Crawford said that the prior statute talks about “one member of the board of commissioners” in the prior statute. He said that this was an inadvertent omission when the statute was recodified. The reference to the “board of commissioners” did not come forward. The statute, as it exists now, makes it clear that you must be a member of the Board of Selectmen, and of the School Board in order to serve as a representative.

(9:57 elapsed)

Mr. Crapo again attempted to interrupt. Mr. Crawford asked to be allowed to continue.

Mr. Crawford said that this seems to revolve around the absence of the term “member of the governing body” of the village district. There has been an attempt to leverage this to say that anybody in the village district could serve. That creates it’s own problem. What is a “member of the village district?” Is it resident? A voter? Someone who happens to have a summer home and is there for the week? It cannot be thought that the legislature intended such an open-ended and unclear definition of who may serve, particularly when you look at the rest of the statute and its clarity, he said.

In addition, the use of the term “by their respective boards” applies to all three entities, the Board of Selectmen, the School Board, and the members of the village district. How does that make any sense when you consider a member of the village district to mean anyone in the village district. The respective board of someone who is a resident and voter could be the School Board, the Board of Selectmen or the village district Board of Commissioners. The use of that term makes no sense unless you construe “member of the village district” to mean member of the village district board, as the statute clearly said in 1993 before this mistake was made, he said.

In construing statutes, you have to take the entire statute together. There’s another provision later in the statute which talks about members of the Board of Commissioners of the Village District, members of the Board of Selectmen and members of the School Board being ineligible to serve as members-at-large of the Budget Committee. Editor’s note: See RSA 32:15, V. It is clear that the legislature intended those people to be in a separate class, Mr. Crawford said. They could be on the Budget Committee, but they would have to convince their respective boards to allow them to serve.

To interpret this to give a resident of the village district two opportunities to serve, one by being elected, and if that fails, to be appointed by the village district board makes no sense in the entire statutory scheme. The scheme is designed to provide representation for the various boards that need to bring their budgets before the Budget Committee. To avoid stacking the Budget Committee with multiple members of the boards only one may serve and the others cannot run as members-at-large, he said.

This entire statutory scheme would make no sense under the statutory construction proposed by Mr. Crapo. I’ve cited a lot of case law on this. It is very clear that you cannot pick out one principle on statutory construction from a whole range of principles. Sutherland has a series of books that is about “that big” (Mr. Crawford held his hands about one foot apart) that goes into this in great detail. You interpret statutes by their literal meaning if you can, but when you have a problem with that you look at the legislative intent. The legislative intent here is clear. It is for the Board of Commissioners of the Village District to send a representative, just like the School Board and just like the Board of Selectmen. They didn’t intend to make a special exception for Village District appointees.

Ms. Grote attempted to interrupt.

Mr. Crawford concluded by saying “that’s ridiculous. Thank you.”

Editor’s note: A publication by the New Hampshire Municipal Association, entitled “The Basic Law of Budgeting, a Guide for Towns, Village Districts and School Districts 2015-2016,” says, at pages 55-56, that the Budget Committee must include “one member of the governing body of the municipality, one member of the school board of each school district wholly within the municipality (if any), and one commissioner of each village district wholly within the town (if any).” It has interpreted RSA 32:15 the same way that Mr. Crawford has.

(14:15 elapsed)

Mr. Crapo said that he had a different spin that was more consistent with Attorney Donovan’s opinion. The intent of the legislature is to make sure that the entities are represented. For Rye Beach Precinct to be represented there is a schema for one of their commissioners to attend, or appoint an alternate. With regard to Mr. Crawford’s statement about stacking the board and two opportunities, he is trying to say that it is creating double representation. If I was a Commissioner and was the representative, and Mr. Drake, who is a commissioner ran for this board, then the Rye Beach Commissioners would have two seats. That is the intent, which is to prevent a sitting commissioner from running as a member-at-large. Additionally, I am the Chair of the Zoning Board of Adjustment of Rye Beach. Yes, someone who owns a house and is there for one week a year is still a resident and can represent his fellow taxpayers in that precinct, he said.

(16:16 elapsed)

Mae Bradshaw that, while she understands Mr. Crawford’s argument, when it comes to rewriting legislation, courts unanimously, throughout the country, say, let’s put it on the legislature to fix their problem. Editor’s note: That is incorrect. See Singer & Singer (formerly Sutherland), Statutory Construction (7th ed. 2010) 47:36 (“[m]ost courts permit the substitution of one word for another if necessary to carry out legislative intent or express a clearly manifested meaning.” See also Levitt v. Attorney General, 104 N.H. 100 (1962) (drafting error corrected).

Mr. Crawford asked to be permitted to respond.

Ms. Grote said “no, this discussion is over.”

Mr. Crawford moved that the Committee not seat Mr. Crapo.

Mr. Crapo raised a “point of order” stating that Mr. Crawford did not have the “jurisdiction” (sic) to make the motion.

The motion died for lack of a second.

The motion of Doug Abrams to accept Attorney Donovan’s opinion and move on with our full day of budget committee meetings. As he was making his motion, Ms. Grote said “thank you.” Mae Bradshaw seconded. All were in favor, except Mr. Crapo, who abstained, and Mr. Crawford, who voted against. Vote: 7-1-1, Shawn Crapo abstaining.

Department

Request Accepted

Mosquito Control Commission, 4414-39 (17:55 elapsed)

Tom Aspinwall, Chairman of the Commission, said that the proposal was pretty much the same as last year. He mentioned the fact that they had been asked to institute tick control, but had not received approval from the Conservation Commission as is needed as it is their land. He said that the treatments could be absorbed within the existing budget.

The motion of Doug Abrams to approve the budget, seconded by Phil Winslow, carried unanimously. Vote: 9-0 including Shawn Crapo.

$85,455 $85,395

Emergency Management, 4290-17 (22:28 elapsed)

Police Chief Kevin Walsh addressed. Doug Abrams asked how much of the budget would be covered by grants. The response was $6375 per quarter was available, plus $2000 for training and $15,580 for drills and exercises. In response to a question from Peter Crawford, who referred to $26,080 that appears in a letter in the Budget Book, Chief Walsh said that this money would not automatically be received but that there had to be expenditures in specific areas that would qualify for reimbursement.

The motion of Doug Abrams to approve the budget, seconded by Peter Crawford, carried unanimously. Vote: 9-0 including Shawn Crapo.

$11,500 $11,500

Police Department, 4210-15 (35:12 elapsed)

Chief Walsh addressed. He spoke about improved communications and unusual activity relating to car thefts that resulted in the prevention of a crime due to the increased approachability of the officers. He spoke about issues with drinking on the beach and youth drinking at house parties. There are 22 DWI arrests so far this year. He would like that to be zero. There are issues with loud noise from motorcycles and speeding, and improper turns at intersections with stop signs. Those are the quality of life complaints that the people in Rye are asking about.

Doug Abrams asked about health care. Town Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie referred to a 12 percent town-wide decrease.

Doug Abrams moved approval of the budget. Peter Crawford seconded for discussion and asked whether there was enough in the fuel budget. Gas prices are up, he said. In 2016, $31,672 was spent and the budget is flat at $30,000, but this year only $19,000 has been spent to date, which must not include all of the expenditures.

Chief Walsh referred to the new vehicles running on 6 cylinders compared to the old vehicles running on 4 cylinders at some times, and 8 cylinders at others.

Mr. Crawford referred to gas prices in 2016 being down to $2.25, almost an all time low, and yet more than the budget was spent, but this year prices are back up, but we’ve only spent $19,000. It was ascertained that $2.00 per gallon had been used for both the 2017 and 2018 budgets.

In response to a question from Ralph Hickson, Chief Walsh said that there are 10 full-time officers and 4 part-time. All positions are filled.

All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$1,410,332 $1,410,332

Animal Control, 4414-38 (48:20 elapsed)

Chief Walsh addressed. He referred to his unsuccessful attempt to change the dogs-on-the-beach ordinance. There were successful patrols on the beach. 79 tickets were issued for dogs-on-the-beach and there were four dog bite complaints. There will also be patrols in the Town Forest and at Parsons Field. There were 298 animal complaints for the year. Doug Abrams looked down at the sign beside him and asked whether any $1000 dog waste violations had been issued. Chief Walsh said that he would like the sign to have said “up to $1000.” Peter Crawford said that he would like to see the sign revised, and he thinks Selectman Musselman agrees.

Jaci Grote interjected that the discussion was getting off topic.

The motion of Ralph Hickson, seconded by Mae Bradshaw, for the $16,414, carried unanimously. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$16,414 $16,414

Parking Enforcement, Fund 8 (52:05 elapsed)

Chief Walsh referred to a late start to the season this year. Challenges with Sawyers Beach and the activity generated by the business will result in some proposed changes, he said. He referred to various challenges with parking enforcement. The tickets are $35 with increases after 5 days. It goes up to $100 if a court summons must be issued. It was revealed that the ticket revenue goes 60 percent into the Parking Enforcement Fund, and 40 percent into the General Fund. Ms. Gillespie that the current balance is $41,782. Doug Abrams moved to recommend the $35,782 request. Phil Winslow seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$35,782 $35,782

Outside details, Fund 7 (55:25 elapsed)

Chief Walsh described the uses of the outside details. Peter Crawford asked whether this fund pays for the cruisers. Chief Walsh confirmed. Mr. Crawford said that he was confused, although now is perhaps not the time to talk about it, but there was discussion about a couple more vehicles and the way that the cruisers roll over.

Ms. Gillespie said that Chief Walsh would discuss the town-wide car in connection with the General Fund budget and Fire Chief Cotreau would discuss the vehicle that he wants in his portion. She said that this is the normal rotation of the cruiser. Chief Walsh said that there are five cruisers. Ms. Gillespie said that, when a new cruiser is brought in, an old one is released to a department that has one that is on its last legs. That one goes to the graveyard at Public Works, she said.

Doug Abrams moved to approve the request of $75,000. Phil Winslow seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$75,000 $75,000

Ms. Gillespie pointed out that, including the Fire Department, the total is $77,500. Peter Crawford suggested a separate motion on the $2500. It was agreed that that would wait.

Capital outlay, Police Cruiser, 4902-15-760 (59:32 elapsed)

There was discussion about whether the amount requested was $45,500 as the budget printout indicates, or $48,039 as the capital request sheet indicates. Chief Walsh stated that the difference is the cost of changing over the equipment. Chief Walsh said that he is requesting the higher amount.

Peggy Balboni expressed doubt as to whether the Budget Committee could recommend more than the Selectmen had requested. It appeared to be agreed the Budget Committee could do so.

Mae Bradshaw made a motion to amend the amount from $45,500 to $48,039. Doug Abrams seconded.

Peter Crawford asked how many miles a year are put on the five cruisers. He said that he saw on the third page that the cruisers are retired at 120,000 miles, but the Caprice only has 97,000 miles.

Chief Walsh stated that the newest car stays as the mainline car which goes 24 hours a day, seven days a week. An estimated 50,000 to 60,000 miles are put on that car. The use of the other cars depends on maintenance and training. That will add up to 30,000 or 40,000 miles because those cars are not used 24/7 but only 8 or so hours per day.

Mr. Crawford said that that would be 90,000 miles per year.

Chief Walsh agreed that there is that potential.

Mr. Crawford said that a year could be skipped at times if the cars are retired at 120,000 miles.

Chief Walsh provided various explanations, most related to maintenance, and said that once the vehicles are turned over to the town departments after five years they are tired.

Mr. Crawford asked whether that meant that the cars were turned over with less than 120,000 miles.

Chief Walsh disagreed, saying that the cars have 120,000 to 145,000 miles when turned over.

Ray Jarvis said that the Selectmen tried skipping a year once on a Public Works vehicle and it caused problems. The department heads know what is needed, he said.

Mr. Crawford said that he does not disagree, but that he believes that the vehicles are being turned over to the town with fewer miles than was stated. Otherwise, the math does not make sense. Editor’s note: If all five cars in the department are used 90,000 miles per year, each of the cars, on average, would have 18,000 more miles on it per year. After five years in the department, the average vehicle would have accumulated 5 times 18,000, or 90,000 miles, not the 120,000 to 145,000 stated.

Cyndi Gillespie said that most of the cars used by the town departments have close to 200,000 miles on them. Currently, the Building Inspector’s car has 148,000 miles, she said.

Mr. Crawford said the Police Chief had sold him on the fact that the cars are old and need to be turned over. However, it must be happening at less than 120,000 miles. There are two new vehicles elsewhere in the budget that don’t exist now, one for town-wide use and one for the Fire Department. We’re going to be considering buying these. A key piece of data is how many miles the cars coming from the Police Department have on them. It must be less than 120,000, he said.

A number of people were trying to make comments, however Jaci Grote said that Mae Bradshaw had made a motion and Doug Abrams had seconded. She called for a vote. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$45,500 $48,039

Phil Winslow asked whether the Selectmen needed to revote due to the different amount. Ms. Gillespie confirmed.

Town-wide vehicle, 4902-68-735 (70:42 elapsed)

Jaci Grote announced that this was line item 735 for $24,000.

Chief Walsh referred to part-time employees who are using their parents’ cars or their own vehicles and are uncomfortable doing that. So, I had them using the Building Inspector’s vehicle to do those patrols, he said. I’ve started to track vehicle use and mileage. In May, the car was used 7 days a week, usually Monday through Friday, 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. it would be used by the Building Inspector. In May through September, Animal Control is using the car 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. and then again for beach patrols from 4:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. On the weekends, the car is used those same hours as well as for squad patrols on the beach, and also to deliver forfeitures in September when people do not pay for dog licenses. Parking enforcement started using the car about three years ago in poor weather. The Building Inspector’s car is shared during the same hours of use, which requires coordination, he said.

The proposal is for a new vehicle with multiple purposes. If a seagull gets hurt, Maine Wildlife is not going to come and get it, but they will take the seagull if delivered to them. It could be put in a cage where the passenger sits. The appropriate vehicle would be one with a cargo area, he said.

Mae Bradshaw asked where the seagulls go next. Chief Walsh said “heaven.” For strays where the owner is not found, the Animal Control Officer goes to the SPCA in Stratham. When the Animal Control Officer is not around we put them in the back of a cruiser, he said.

Doug Abrams asked whether it might be better to have a separate, reasonably-priced utility vehicle for you to use at your discretion, rather than having a shared vehicle.

Chief Walsh agreed, but said that he felt that the only way to sell this was to come up with multiple purposes.

Peggy Balboni suggested that, if the department heads have agreed on a plan, they should be allowed to make that work and the issue should be revisited next year.

Jaci Grote agreed, saying that she appreciated the conservation of money, but that if it hinders either the Animal Control Officer or the Building Inspector we should look at it next year.

Doug Abrams asked whether this would eliminate the vehicle passed down to the Building Inspector’s office, or whether this was in addition.

Chief Walsh said that they were looking to transfer that vehicle more quickly to Public Works Director Dennis McCarthy or the Recreation Department.

Shawn Crapo noted that a person was being added in the Building Inspector’s office, but asked whether ultimately it would be returned to one person.

Jaci Grote said that, from the perspective of the Conservation Commission, the Building Inspector is very busy. She asked whether there was a motion for $24,000.

Phil Winslow said that next year the data will be available. Perhaps there should be one vehicle per department, but at least the data will be available.

Doug Abrams made a motion to recommend $24,000. Ralph Hickson seconded.

Peter Crawford said that he had a question. Ms. Grote said that he would be permitted one question, and asked what it was. He asked where all of the retired vehicles are.

Chief Walsh said that the Fire Chief, the Public Works Director, Recreation and the Town Hall each have one.

Peter Crawford asked about the number of miles of usage per year.

Chief Walsh, apparently misunderstanding the question, said that they do not go by that. The person putting his foot through the floorboard gets the next vehicle, he said.

Dennis McCarthy said that he takes the worst car as he is closest to the mechanic. When we get vehicles, they have 130,000 or 150,000 miles, he said.

Ray Jarvis said that he has trouble putting numbers on real life situations.

Shawn Crapo said that, a couple of years ago, a town-wide car was turned down. Editor’s note: See 2010 Article 10 for $19,800 which was rejected 604-348. That was probably short sighted, he said.

Peter Crawford said that he was probably going to vote no. Jaci Grote interrupted and said “you can vote no.” He said that perhaps the police cars should be sold when they come off police use and there should be a different fleet with better mileage vehicles for town employees. Nobody has analyzed the economics of that. Maybe the employees should use their own cars more. That may be more economical. The numbers just aren’t adding up to me, he said. It looks to me like they are being turned over to the town at 100,000 miles, yet I’m hearing 180,000 miles. Editor’s note: Click here to see the discussion on the new cruiser and information provided on miles used on the vehicles before they are turned over to town departments. Peggy Balboni interrupted him. Ralph Hickson raised his hand, but Jaci Grote said that this would be the last question. It turned out that Mr. Hickson was raising his hand to move the question.

The vote was 8-1, Peter Crawford voting against. Vote: 8-1, including Shawn Crapo voting in favor.

Town Administrator Magnant looked back towards the camera and said something.

$24,000 $24,000

Public Safety Building, 4194-08 (86:16 elapsed)

Fire Chief Cotreau said that there is a little bit of an increase in equipment contracts.

Doug Abrams made a motion to recommend $60,525. Ralph Hickson seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$60,525 $60,525

Ambulance, 4215-19 (88:37 elapsed)

Chief Cotreau referred to the award of EMS agency of the year by Portsmouth Hospital. I wasn’t here then but I’m pretty proud of that. There was a vote last year to keep the second ambulance. Data will be tracked on that. I will be coming back to the board on that issue. The new ambulance is working out well, he said.

Doug Abrams asked for the ambulance revenue. Ms. Gillespie said that it was $208,823 so far in 2017. Peter Crawford asked whether that was billed or collected. Ms. Gillespie said that it was the amount billed. Mr. Crawford asked whether there was any allowance for doubtful accounts included in the figure. Ms. Gillespie said that she does not know what that number is yet, but the figure includes the adjustment that had been made. Ambulance revenue is up from last year, but for the adjustment. Editor’s note: Earlier in the year, uncollectible amounts in the accounts receivable for ambulance services were written off and reduced the revenues.

Doug Abrams made a motion to recommend $125,865.

Phil Winslow asked why the retirement figure had dropped. Ms. Gillespie referred to the use of call personnel.

Chief Cotreau said that the call personnel would be considered as part of their strategic planning. Fewer people are coming back on call backs. Every time we have a call, we have a call back, he said. Editor’s note: The station is manned on one shift by three firefighters, and on three shifts by two firefighters. Since at least two persons go out on a fire truck or ambulance when a call is received, the station is likely to be completely unmanned if a second call is received before they return. The call back is intended to get replacement personnel at the station in case a second call comes in before the personnel from the first call return.

Shawn Crapo seconded the motion.

Without asking whether there was any further discussion, Jaci Grote called for a vote. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

Peter Crawford said that he had voted in favor, but had a comment. He said that he thinks that all of the equipment needs to be looked at, which is part of the strategic plan. Chief Cotreau agreed. Mr. Crawford said that he had serious doubts about the second ambulance. North Hampton, which is a town of similar size, has looked at a second ambulance and has said that they cannot justify one. We spent $3000 on a new fuel tank for the second ambulance and only 25 calls have been taken with it, he said. Chief Cotreau said that he thought it was less than that. Mr. Crawford said that he questioned the economics. He suggested that the town may want to sell off the second ambulance at some point.

Shawn Crapo said that the first person saved by the second ambulance would question that. Mr. Crawford started to respond, but Jaci Grote interrupted and shouted “end of discussion.”

$125,865 $125,865

Fire Department, 4220-16 (94:52 elapsed)

Chief Cotreau talked about his plan to do an assessment and look at service gaps. At the end of the orientation period we will jump into the strategic assessment. We need an independent voice to avoid “groupthink.” I put in $3300 for a “subject matter expert” to assist us. I also asked to put off the consideration of the quint for a year. It is a lot of money and there is a lot to look at. The department will be looking at the call department. The lifeguards need to be looked at. There is a nationwide shortage. There is a service gap between what the lifeguards can reach and what the Coast Guard can reach. We are in the second year of our radio system upgrade. With the exception of the second ambulance, that I do not think it would be prudent to include, all of our equipment will have new radios, he said.

Peter Crawford said it was unclear whether this was the last year of the plan for the radios. Chief Cotreau said that he thinks that there is one more year that deals with the base station. Mr. Crawford said that it is a lot of money for the radios, and asked whether they must be replaced every 8 or 10 years due to the unavailability of parts. Chief Cotreau said that, when he first started on the job 35 years ago, they were using radios that were 25 years old. It is all software driven now. It is better when they work but they don’t last as long., he said

Jaci Grote said that the budget was going up from $1.3 million to $1.4 million. Peter Crawford said that it is only up about $30,000. Ms. Grote said that she was looking at the wrong number. Editor’s note: The 2017 budget was $1,373,481 and the proposed 2018 budget $1,406,344.

Doug Abrams made a motion to recommend $1,406,344. Mae Bradshaw seconded. Jaci Grote called for a vote even before Mr. Abrams stopped speaking, and did not ask whether there was any further discussion. She started to move onto the next item even before the vote, but someone reminded her of the need to vote. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$1,406,344 $1,406,344

Fire Department Capital Outlay, 4902-68-741 (104:02 elapsed)

Ms. Gillespie said that 741 is the Fire Department. Chief Cotreau said that that is the radio project. Ms. Gillespie said that the $97,000 also includes the vehicle.

Chief Cotreau said that the Command Vehicle is about a command capability, not getting a new vehicle. The vehicle has command and control capabilities at an incident. The events are low frequency but very high risk. Doug Abrams said that there is $47,000 for the vehicle and $50,000 for the radios. The capability is used for tornadoes and school evacuations as well, Chief Cotreau said.

Peter Crawford asked whether the $47,000 included the cost of the vehicle and whether that was a Ford Explorer.

Chief Cotreau confirmed and said that that was what he had operated before and it is cost effective. The command unit can also be put in the back of a pickup truck, he said.

Mr. Crawford asked whether this was in lieu of the Chief’s car or whether he needed to keep that as well.

Chief Cotreau said that it would be in lieu.

Mr. Crawford said that that would free up a vehicle that could be devoted to the town, but the Committee had just voted another vehicle to help out with that.

Chief Cotreau said that they had not discussed where his vehicle would go. There is not a lot of other demand for it. Usually, the forestry vehicle pickup truck is used when a vehicle is needed. I’m going to lean on that with the strategic plan, he said.

Mr. Crawford stated his view on all of the Capital Outlay. The other night I estimated $5.8 million in capital expenditures, but I think that Conservation is not going ahead, he said. As he said that, Mr. Crawford looked at Jaci Grote, who is on the Conservation Commission. Ms. Grote said that she doesn’t know yet. Mr. Crawford said that, if $5.8 million in capital expenditures goes through is huge number, unprecedented for this Town.

Mae Bradshaw argued that that was misleading as it could be bonded.

Mr. Crawford said that eventually it would have to be paid.

Shawn Crapo said that, if the townspeople want to vote for it, they can.

Mr. Crawford said that he would like to defer the Capital Outlay and look at these accounts in connection with the warrant articles and the overall plan. The $5.8 million is just the major projects. I did not include the minor ones. This is another $230,000 on top of the $5.8 million, plus the minor projects. It’s a huge nut, he said.

Doug Abrams said that he understands that, but the department head is before them and the vote can always be changed later. He suggested that the department head be allowed to describe the projects.

Mr. Crawford said that he had no objection, but that he was going to vote to table all of the capital outlay items.

Chief Cotreau spoke about issues during a snowstorm.

Jaci Grote asked whether there was a motion on the $97,000. None was made.

Peter Crawford moved to table the $47,000. There was no second.

Doug Abrams moved to recommend the $97,000. Ray Jarvis seconded.

Mr. Crawford voted no, stating that he might vote for it eventually, but that he wanted to table it now. All others were in favor. Vote: 8-1, including Shawn Crapo voting in favor.

$97,000 $97,000

Safety Building, Capital Outlay, 4902-68-728 (113:12 elapsed)

Chief Cotreau said that $10,000 of that was to take care of the exterior of the building. The $6000 is for a floor scrubber. Those range in price from $5,000 to $25,000, he said.

Jaci Grote asked whether there was a motion.

Peter Crawford moved to table. There was no second.

Mae Bradshaw moved to recommend the $16,000. Phil Winslow seconded. All were in favor except Peter Crawford said that he would vote against the motion as he wanted to table the issue. Vote: 8-1, including Shawn Crapo voting in favor.

Chief Cotreau spoke about the problems with the slippery floor and the borrowing of the school’s scrubber a couple of times a year.

Jaci Grote interrupted and said that they were on the lifeguard budget.

$16,000 $16,000

Lifeguards, 4520-52 (115:17 elapsed)

Chief Cotreau referred to a small increase in the wage line.

Peter Crawford noted the $1000 increase in the wage line and moved to approve. Doug Abrams seconded. All were in favor. Vote 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$66,377 $66,377

Fire Department outside details, Fund 7 (117:07 elapsed)

Peter Crawford moved to approve the $2500. Phil Winslow seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

Ralph Hickson asked for the number of Fire Department staff. Chief Cotreau said that, including himself, there are 10 full-timers and about 15 call personnel.

$2,500 $2,500

Custodian, 4194-02 (118:09 elapsed)

Public Works Director Dennis McCarthy came up and sat down. Jaci Grote referred to $24,210. Mr. McCarthy said that that is pretty much what they are already doing. Mae Bradshaw noted that a request from the Board of Selectmen for $84,000 had been made, but only $24,210 approved.

Jaci Grote said that she wanted a motion, and then the matter could be discussed, but it could be discussed first if desired.

Ms. Bradshaw said that she wanted an explanation for the huge difference. Mr. McCarthy said that his request was for $84,642. For the third year in a row, he said he had put in a request for a building and grounds service person. We didn’t agree on the title, let alone the cost. The Selectmen did not want to put on another full-time person. We are still in discussions about trying to do it with a part-time person. I think that that would be difficult as there are not a lot of people available to hire.

Ray Jarvis asked about the job description.

Mr. McCarthy said that it was for a building and grounds foreman, as a non-exempt position, eligible for overtime. They had given a list of 20 things to be done. He read from the list. The person would have a CDL license and the person would fill in at the Transfer Center.

Ray Jarvis asked what the hangup was.

Mr. McCarthy said that it was the full-time nature of the position. We actually got up to where they would approve a 32 hour per week person. Health care was going to be $20,900 as they had assumed a family plan. Retirement is 11.83 percent of their pay, he said.

In response to a question from Shawn Crapo, Mr. McCarthy said that there is nothing in this budget for the part-time person referred to.

Shawn Crapo moved to approve $24,210. Mae Bradshaw asked why they didn’t table the issue, as they know it will be coming back.

Jaci Grote said that she was at the meeting on Monday and Selectman Musselman was adamant that he is not going to approve a full-time position. The offer of a part-time position was his attempt at negotiation, but that was not accepted by Mr. McCarthy. I was stunned to learn that Lee Arthur cleans her toilets and takes out her trash. If you want to, we can make a recommendation that we support the Public Works Director in his request.

Ray Jarvis asked about the cost savings from adding the position.

Mr. McCarthy referred to various tasks assigned to Town employees. Right now, everyone is picking it up. We are getting old and our replacements will not do what we do, he said.

There was discussion about the barrier being the full-time nature of the position and the 32 hour dividing line between part-time and full-time.

Phil Winslow said that the most significant decision that the Town can make is to hire someone. This would be $70,000 annually. Over 20 years, it would be $1.4 million, then they would retire and cost even more. It’s probably a $1.8 million to $2 million decision, he said. We’re asking him to come back with a cost justification. The work is all being done now, he said.

Shawn Crapo asked what the dollar figure cost would be for a 32 hour per week employee.

Ray Jarvis said that it is a mistake to use a figure over 40 years. Most of what we do is on an annual basis. You can make anything look large. Think about the people who are doing the work who are being paid even more.

Town Administrator Magnant said that the discussion with the Selectmen is not over.

Peter Crawford said that Mae Bradshaw had moved to table, and that he would second.

The motion to table carried unanimously.

Peter Crawford said that this has to be worked out with Mr. Magnant and the Selectmen first. I listened to the discussion and I think that the wrong mix of skills has been proposed. He noted also that there is a succession issue and Mr. McCarthy is 66. We can’t solve it here, he said.

$84,642 TABLED

Public Works Buildings, 4194-06 (132:17 elapsed)

Public Works Director McCarthy said that this was just for the buildings.

Mae Bradshaw moved approval of the $13,170. Peter Crawford seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$13,170 $13,170

Doug Abrams asked about the rate for oil. Mr. McCarthy said that it was $1.86 per gallon for blended and $1.76 for straight number two heating oil.

Public Works, 4312-23 (133:34 elapsed)

Paul Paradis came up to sit down. Mr. Paradis said that the budget is down because a guy who is at the top of the wage scale retired. The position was filled with someone at the bottom of the wage scale. Also, the insurance is down.

Mae Bradshaw moved approval of the $679,702. Phil Winslow seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$679,702 $679,702

Ray Jarvis asked why health care had gone down. Ms. Gillespie said that these were the rates that HealthTrust had sent to them. There are formulas, but the major factor is the experience rate. Last year, a lot of plans were changed, she said.

Jaci Grote said that she would like to move on to Public Works Operations.

Public Works Operations, 4312-24 (135:27 elapsed)

Paul Paradis addressed. Jaci Grote said that the budget was essentially the same and asked for comments. Mr. Paradis said that the salt had been cut $5000 because they had gotten a better handle on it.

Doug Abrams made a motion to approve $542,575. Peter Crawford said that he had not even found the page yet. Ralph Hickson seconded.

Peter Crawford asked how much salt and sand were used annually. Mr. Paradis said that they budget 1200 tons and 100 tons of sand. Mr. Crawford asked how much salt the salt shed holds. Mr. Paradis responded 300 tons. I use about 35 tons per storm, he said. Mr. Crawford divided 1200 by 35 and said that that works out to about 35 storms. Mr. Crawford asked whether there it might include salting on cold nights. Mr. Paradis was starting to answer when Jaci Grote said that there was a motion and a second and called for a vote. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$548,075 $542,575

Street lighting, 4316-27 (138:20 elapsed)

Public Works Director Dennis McCarthy came back up to sit down. He said that they would be updating the Town’s fixtures, in a similar manner to what was done in the “precinct” area. Shawn Crapo said that he represents Rye Beach. His father represents Jenness Beach, he said. Editor’s note: Randy Crapo is the father of Shawn Crapo. He is a Jenness Beach District Commissioner and is also their representative to the Budget Committee, but he was not present. Doug Abrams noted that there are no meters on the light fixtures and the town is not billed for consumption. Mr. McCarthy agreed. Mr. McCarthy said that he used the Jenness Beach figures, but the Town does not have as many fixtures as they do. He referred to a figure of 75 or 77 fixtures for that district. We have about 9 fixtures, he said. He said that the utility does not install the fixtures. The customer has to do the installation. The utility and the town come to an agreement on the charge.

Peter Crawford asked whether the $4500 in fixtures was the reason for the budget increase. Mr. McCarthy confirmed. Mr. Crawford noted that the electric budget is flat, and asked where the savings is. Mr. McCarthy said that there isn’t any because the fixtures wouldn’t be installed until late in the year. Mr. Crawford asked what the savings would be in 2019. Mr. McCarthy said probably 10 percent. Mr. Crawford expressed surprise and said that LEDs are supposed to be three times as efficient. Mr. McCarthy admitted that he had not seen any numbers.

Doug Abrams said that the utility may not pass along all of the savings.

Mr. Crawford said that the numbers are small so he will vote for it. However, we should have the numbers, he said.

Jaci Grote said that there had been a motion to approve by Doug Abrams and asked for a second. Ralph Hickson seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$10,000 $10,000

Transfer Station Operations, 4323-33 (143:07 elapsed)

Jaci Grote noted a slight decrease. Mae Bradshaw moved to recommend $230,248. Phil Winslow seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

Doug Abrams had a question about the retirement, and whether the spending to date indicated that there would be a problem. Mr. McCarthy said that there would not be.

Peter Crawford said that he had seen the new retirement rates in the front of the book, but there is no comparison with the old rates. Town Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie said that they went up last year, but this year they are flat. They go up every other year, she said.

$230,248 $230,248

Solid Waste Disposal, 4324-34 (144:35 elapsed)

Doug Abrams made a motion to approve $185,000. Shawn Crapo seconded.

Jaci Grote called for a vote without asking whether there was any more discussion.

Ray Jarvis said something about discussion.

Ms. Grote said “discussion.”

Ray Jarvis asked why the Selectmen had voted $8000 less than the request. Mr. McCarthy noted a disagreement on tipping fee costs, and said that they have been trying to fine tune those costs to get them as close as possible to the actual. I like a little more of a buffer, but we can deal with it, he said. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$192,985 $185,000

Land Management, 4520-55 (146:00 elapsed)

Jaci Grote said that we are looking at $43,250 compared to this year’s budget of $51,160. She asked whether there were any questions.

Doug Abrams asked about the Parsons Creek Monitoring. Town Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie said that, the past few years, that had been taken out of Fund 12, Beach Cleaning. There is only $3000 left in that fund, so it has been brought back into the operating budget, she said. Mr. Abrams referred to the difference between the Department’s Budget and the Selectmen’s Budget. Editor’s note: The Department had requested $15,000 but the Selectmen had recommended only $5000, according to the Budget Book provided to Budget Committee members. Ms. Gillespie said that Selectman Musselman understands better what needs to be done.

Peter Crawford noted that the Contracted Services also dropped. It was $27,000 last year. The Department request was $20,000, but the Selectmen recommended $15,000, he said. He asked what was in that. Public Works Director Dennis McCarthy said that it was the landscaping contractors.

Mr. Crawford asked whether the Landfill Monitoring line item was for the Breakfast Hill Landfill and the Grove Rd. Landfill. Editor’s note: The 2017 budget for that is $10,000. The 2018 Departmental request is for $2,500, but the Selectmen recommended $6,500. Ms. Gillespie said that that is only for Breakfast Hill. We anticipate more monitoring there, Mr. McCarthy said, because of the PFC issue, which is why it’s going up, he said.

Peter Crawford said that the Rye Civic League had a forum on water issues in town along with its annual meeting and 73 people showed up. Cutting the monitoring budget is a concern, he said.

Jaci Grote referred to Fund 12 and an expenditure of $16,000 on that. Ms. Gillespie said that Fund 12 is used for Parsons Creek, not Landfill monitoring. Ms. Grote noted that $16,000 was spent in 2017, but now we’re saying that only $5000 is needed. Ms. Gillespie said that that was what Selectman Musselman was saying. Editor’s note: There was $16,425 spent year to date in 2017 vs. a budget of $15,000 in line item 4902-51-770, but only $5000 budgeted for 2018 in line item 4520-55-489. The Parsons Creek monitoring line item has shifted from Fund 12 to the Land Management account. She asked whether Selectman Musselman’s company was doing this. Town Administrator Magnant said that another company is used. She asked how he knew what to project in that case. Mr. Magnant said that less testing was planned. Over the years we have been collecting data and some of the locations are difficult to monitor, he said. Ms. Grote said that she agreed with Mr. Crawford’s concern.

Shawn Crapo asked whether engineers other than Selectman Musselman’s firm had looked at the change in the monitoring.

Mr. Magnant asked whether he was referring to the Parsons Creek or the Landfill Monitoring. Mr. Crapo said that it was the former, as the Landfill Monitoring is being tripled.

Mr. Crawford disagreed, saying that the account is being taken from $10,000 to $6,500. Mr. Crapo referred to an increase from $2,500 to $10,000. Editor’s note: $2500 was the 2016 budgeted amount, of which $1970 was spent. Ms. Gillespie said that, when the $10,000 was budgeted, the Selectmen were not aware that there was a capital reserve for the Grove Road Landfill. She said that there is about $30,000 in that reserve.

Doug Abrams made a motion to recommend $42,250. If there is a shortfall, money may be pulled from care of trees or elsewhere in the budget. With the Selectman’s background, I feel that this would have been well covered and taken care of. Ralph Hickson seconded.

Peter Crawford asked whether part of the monitoring was done by CMA Engineers. Editor’s note: CMA Engineers is Selectman Musselman’s firm. Ms. Gillespie said that they don’t get paid for that. Mr. Crawford asked whether an amount had been budgeted for that. They do not do the monitoring, Mr. McCarthy said. The actual monitoring and testing is done by a separate company, he said. Peter Crawford asked whether they did the analysis of the results. Mr. McCarthy confirmed. Mr. Crawford asked whether, if someone had to be paid to do that, that is in the budget. Ms. Gillespie said that it was not. Mr. Crawford said that this assumes that Craig Musselman is reelected and continues to do this for free. Editor’s note: Selectman Musselman’s term expires in 2018. Ms. Gillespie said that he has been doing it for over 20 years now. Mr. Crawford said that the reason that he has been doing the analysis for free is that he has a conflict of interest. Mr. McCarthy said that, if someone else did it, it would not be a huge cost, as they simply take the data, put it in a spreadsheet, and send it to the State.

(152:47 elapsed)

Ray Jarvis said that he still does not understand the Parsons Creek item. This has been a problem for years. You read in the Portsmouth Herald that people do not cooperate and do not want to be monitored. We should say there is a problem and address it. If state help is needed we need to get that. “That’s awful, fix it,” he said.

Mr. Magnant said that they are working with the state, but the bacterial monitoring is elusive. No concrete data has been gathered to show the source, he asserted.

Ms. Bradshaw said that it might tell somebody not to go in the water because they might get sick. Mr. Magnant said that is the beach monitoring, which is a separate issue. We haven’t done that line, Mr. McCarthy said. Mr. Crapo referred to Stinky Creek. That is the beach, Ms. Bradshaw said.

Mr. Crawford said that he was going to vote against the motion on the table. If it’s defeated, I’ll move to table it. Let’s send this back and make sure that there is enough money to address these issues for the Town, he said.

Peggy Balboni asked whether Selectman Winslow felt that there would be any more discussion if it is sent back. Selectman Winslow said that he did not believe so. The data has not shown anything so far, so why would we want to collect data just so that it can be filed, he said.

Mr. Crapo said that one of the reasons that a second Building Inspector was brought on was to free one of them up to focus on monitoring the septic systems up there. A lot of them have been changed in the last couple of years. I would think that the next couple of years of monitoring would be the most crucial, he said.

Mr. Magnant said that a shotgun approach with a lot of different monitoring stations was used when the monitoring was started. It didn’t make sense to continue monitoring locations where there were not hits or where the hits were hard to read, he said.

Mr. Crawford said that his concern was more with the Landfill Monitoring and the PFCs. Mr. Magnant said that $2500 had been budgeted. DES then said that they wanted monitoring of the PFOAs. We didn’t know what that was going to cost so we put $10,000 in there last year. Now we have a better handle on what the cost will be, he said.

Jaci Grote referred to a reduction in the Parsons Creek monitoring number from $15,000 requested by the department to $5000 recommended by the Selectmen. Rather than taking a broad approach and monitoring many sites, we have been able to target. That makes sense to me, she said.

Shawn Crapo asked about the change in frequency. Mr. Magnant said that it typically is related to storm events.

Mr. McCarthy said that the Grove Rd. Landfill is having more of the problems with contamination, not Breakfast Hill, and the former is covered by the reserve. However, they are looking for more information related to Breakfast Hill. Editor’s note: See the video of the Rye Water District “Water 101” information session at https://vimeo.com/245223926. The PFC counts in the 1500 and 2500 range, relative to the state drinking water standard of 70 is occurring near the Coakley and Breakfast Hill landfills. The PFC levels in and near the Grove Rd. Landfill are much lower than those, although some of the tests in the landfill itself are above 70. However, the Grove Rd. Landfill is much closer to the town wells.

(158:30 elapsed)

Mr. Crawford said that the primary reason that he wants to table the issue is the Landfill Monitoring. There is nothing to pay CMA Engineers, or a possible replacement firm, to perform their role. Selectman Musselman has a conflict of interest. He designed that Breakfast Hill Landfill, he said.

Jaci Grote attempted to interrupt Mr. Crawford.

Mr. Crawford continued, saying that a lot of people in Town think that he is hiding something with respect to that landfill. Editor’s note: See the notes of the July 10, 2017 Board of Selectmen meeting, at which Selectman Musselman, despite prior denials, admitted that ash from the Pease incinerator had been deposited in the Breakfast Hill Landfill.

Mr. Abrams said that there was a motion on the floor and a second.

Shawn Crapo said that it appears that the reporting portion of this may only be a few thousand dollars, which could be recovered from, he said.

Jaci Grote called for a vote. Peter Crawford voted no. Ray Jarvis abstained. All others were in favor. Vote: 7-1-1, Shawn Crapo voting yes.

$53,250 $42,250

Beach Cleaning, Fund 12 (160:42 elapsed)

Public Works Director Dennis McCarthy said that this was one of the places where some of the retirement is captured. Editor’s note: That line item increased from zero budgeted for 2017 to $910 budgeted for 2018. We went from $27,778 to $28,798 as a result, he said.

Jaci Grote asked whether she had a motion to approve the latter figure. Phil Winslow so moved. Mae Bradshaw seconded. Jaci Grote called for a vote without asking whether there was any discussion. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$28,798 $28,798

Jaci Grote asked who was responsible for Grove Rd. monitoring. Mr. McCarthy said that he was not. Ms. Gillespie said that it was in the capital reserve. Whenever a bill comes in for that, it is redirected to the Treasurer and she pays for it directly. Ms. Grote asked how it was determined when monitoring is done. Mr. Magnant said that it is New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services.

Capital reserves, 4915 and 4916 and upcoming meetings

Ms. Gillespie referred to addressing these items since the two Chiefs are present. Jaci Grote said that she thought that those were going to be addressed in a separate meeting.

There was discussion about the next meetings being on December 13 and December 14, 2017. The original calendar referred to December 6 and December 7.

The public hearings are on January 10 and 11, 2018, for the school and town budgets respectively, Ms. Grote said. She referred to the School Deliberative Session on February 7, 2018 and the Town Deliberative Session on February 3, 2018.

The next meeting will be December 13, 2017 at Rye Junior High. The meeting on the 14^th will be here, she said.

Jaci Grote called for a three minute break.

Recreation, 4520-50 (174:30 elapsed)

Recreation Director Lee Arthur addressed. Jaci Grote referred to an increase from $266,350 to $273,854.

Ms. Arthur said that the main differences were that the health insurance had gone down due to a rate decrease, the heating fuel and postage went down due to a reevaluation and salaries are up, which is just the 2% COLA which also hits the vacation buyback and retirement line items. Editor’s note: COLA stands for cost of living adjustment, and is typically based on the inflation rate. Property maintenance is up as we are looking at contracting out the shoveling, she said.

Doug Abrams said that the biggest increase is in the mowing. Ms. Arthur agreed, saying that that is really the biggest increase in the budget. Editor’s note: The mowing line item is up from $11,250 in 2017 to $16,500 in 2018. She said that, ten years ago the mowing and turf management was done out of the Recreation budget for the field designated for Little League use. It is not just a Little League field. It is the Town’s responsibility and is the Town’s field. However, Little League wants total control of the turf management. It is $10,000 to $20,000 a year. This year, for the first time in ten years, volunteers rather than contractors were doing the work. There was damage to the field. Ms. Arthur passed around photographs.

The premise was that the Little League could take care of the field better than the Town could, Ms. Arthur said.

Shawn Crapo said that, as a contractor, he used to get her bid package. I have had the contract for the last two years mowing the soccer area. The damage is in the other area, he said. Ms. Arthur asserted that the Town has saved $100,000 over 10 years by allowing a volunteer organization to maintain the field. We now have to get the field back to where it was. The process worked for ten years, she said.

Ray Jarvis asked why weeds were a problem on the field.

Jaci Grote said that she did not want to micromanage weeds.

Mr. Jarvis said that we are being told that weeds prevent kids from catching balls. “Please,” he said.

Shawn Crapo said that the organization used to mow the field year round and kept it great. For whatever reason, this year, they must have had internal issues or something. Once baseball season ended, they stopped mowing and they let it go six or seven weeks. The grass got to be a foot and a half tall. Then somebody had to go in and mow it, in which case you damage the grass and it becomes a nightmare. The person who did it did $5000 of damage to their $20,000 mower hitting all of the objects in there, he said.

Doug Abrams said that he lives across the street, and the field looks worse than he has ever seen it. Everybody drops their old mower off down there to be used for maintaining the field, he said. I don’t disagree that it needs to be professionally maintained, he said.

The $5000 is the increase in mowing, Ms. Arthur said. We’re going to try to negotiate with Recreation which is going to try to negotiate with the Little League to explain to them that they will be responsible for the turf management side, which includes fertilizing and the mix and lips on the infield. That is not the full cost, she said.

Peter Crawford asked whether Recreation could get any money from Little League for this. Ms. Arthur said that they have provided assistance in the past. Mr. Crawford asked whether these were contributions or whether there was a contract. Ms. Arthur said that there is no contract. They have contributed a significant amount of money over the years. Mr. Crawford asked whether they basically got the exclusive use of that field. Ms. Arthur said that it is not exclusive, but they are the only ones who have been coming to them and booking it. Mr. Crawford said that, in a way, they feel that they own the field. Ms. Arthur responded “yes, but they don’t.” Mr. Crawford asked why they couldn’t be asked to kick in $5000 towards the mowing. Ms Arthur said that they are contributing towards the turf management. Mr. Crawford said that they are already doing that. Ms. Arthur agreed, but said that there was a slippery slope as it is not their responsibility to maintain Town property.

Mr. Crawford said that he thought that having the Town do the mowing was a good idea, but we should go to the Little League and tell them, here’s a contract, we want you to pay the $5000. Ms. Arthur said that they have been relaxed. This is the first hiccup in 17 years, but I agree with you. We need to tighten up the relationship. Mr. Crawford asked whether, if the Budget Committee approved the budget, they would commit to doing that. Lee Arthur looked back at Recreation Commissioner Brett Mulvey who appeared to agree to try, but said that the problem is that the Little League wants to maintain the field. Mr. Crawford said that Recreation should tell the Little League that they’re not doing the job, so we’re going to do it.

Ray Jarvis said that has changed his view and now supports the Recreation bottom line.

Doug Abrams said that everything should be contracted out so that someone is accountable.

Lee Arthur said that that would be significantly more money and labor.

Shawn Crapo referred to twice weekly mowing during baseball season. This year, they didn’t make the All Stars and the season ended, he said.

Doug Abrams said that he would not support adding just the mowing to the budget.

Shawn Crapo mentioned possible liability if volunteers do the mowing, particularly when there are children down there.

Phil Winslow made a motion to approve the $273,854. Mae Bradshaw seconded.

Peter Crawford raised a point of order and said that Mr. Crapo should recuse himself from the vote as he is the potential beneficiary of the increased mowing.

Shawn Crapo said that he was fine with that. All were in favor except Shawn Crapo and Doug Abrams, who abstained. Mr. Abrams stated that he thought that it should be more. Vote: 7-0-2, with Shawn Crapo abstaining. Editor’s note: Mr. Crapo did not recuse himself from voting on the Recreation budget for 2017, that included provision for the mowing contract that he at that time had, and which he was again awarded for 2017, at the November 10, 2016 meeting. See page 2 of the minutes of that meeting.

$273,854 $273,854

Patriotic purposes, 4583-59 (196:47 elapsed)

Doug Abrams made a motion to approve the $10,700 proposed budget. Mae Bradshaw seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$10,700 $10,700

Recreation Revolving, Fund 9 (197:03 elapsed)

Lee Arthur referred to the increases and decreases. The enrollment in the After School Program has been capped due to lack of space, so the budget had to be decreased due to the lack of revenue. Peggy Balboni said that the School Use Feasibility Committee is looking at school use issues and will be reporting to the Selectmen and School Board in December.

Shawn Crapo commented that there are people in town that are saying that one of the schools should be shuttered due to declining enrollment, yet room cannot be found for the After School Program. He indicated that he would have thought that there would be a middle ground. It seems like a huge disconnect, he said.

Doug Abrams made a motion to recommend $238,940. Mae Bradshaw seconded. All were in favor. Vote 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$248,940 $248,940

Capital Outlay, Fund 9 (200:07 elapsed)

Lee Arthur said that $10,000 was sought for a Recreation Land Use Master Plan. She referred to a prior Committee report. The Recreation Commission is trying to follow the short-term and long-term issues. There is not a Master Plan based on existing conditions for the Recreation Area. The Land Use Master Plan would include surveying the area. The Conservation Commission is also doing some surveying. Jaci Grote affirmed. Editor’s note: Jaci Grote is on the Conservation Commission. The Conservation Commission may only acquire land “in the name of the Town,” (see RSA 36-A:4, I). Both the Town Forest (managed by the Conservation Commission) and the adjacent Recreation Area have the same owner. However, contentious disputes have arisen in the past regarding the boundaries. They will look at where the boundaries are and where facilities might be located, Ms. Arthur said. An $80,000 warrant article last year, of which $40,000 was going to be funded by the Recreation Commission failed to pass, she said. Editor’s note: That $40,000 was to be funded from the Recreation Revolving fund, which is money that still belongs to the Town. The Community Center concept was put on hold, and they are hoping to be able to use some of the existing school space.

Phil Winslow asked about the fund balance. Cyndi Gillespie said that it was $373,444.

Ms. Arthur said that they are also planning to add public washrooms. It is not in this budget as it does not come under the purview of the Budget Committee. It is in the CIP Plan, she said. Editor’s note: The CIP Plan has $50,000 for the washrooms. It would be paid out of the donation account, Ms. Arthur said. Over $100,000 in improvements has been paid out of the revolving account in recent years, she said. Two classrooms may be available for Recreation use at the schools, but some improvements may be needed. She referred to space underneath the Junior High gymnasium that might require soundproofing. They are hoping that that would meet the needs of a Community Center and the funds would be available for that, she said.

Peter Crawford asked whether the warrant article for a $150,000 garage would also be requested. Lee Arthur confirmed. Mr. Crawford asked whether, if both that article and this pass, whether the plan would be done prior to the determination of the location of the garage. Ms. Arthur confirmed. Mr. Crawford asked whether the garage would be in a location such that it would not interfere with a possible future location for a Community Center. Ms. Arthur affirmed, and said that the assumption is that it would go where the snack shack is now, at the entrance to the second parking lot, but the plan might change that assumption.

Jaci Grote asked for a motion to approve the $10,000. Shawn Crapo so moved. Phil Winslow seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

Shawn Crapo stated that he is “technically” representing Rye Beach and had abstained from the prior vote on the Recreation budget out of an “exorbitance of care.” Editor’s note: He appeared to vote for the Recreation Revolving Fund budget, but had abstained from voting on the Recreation budget.

$10,000 $10,000

Sewer, Fund 2 (207:15 elapsed)

Lee Arthur addressed. She said that the budget had decreased by $88. There was an increase of $5000 on the Hampton treatment side, offset by decreases elsewhere, she said.

Ms. Arthur reported that they are responsible for 4 percent of the investment in the Hampton wastewater treatment plant. Hampton has plans for $41 million in investments over a span of 10-20 years. The 4 percent would not apply to the entire $41 million. If is difficult to get numbers, but it looks like $13 million would be subject to the 4 percent. That 4 percent charge would significantly impact the end user. They are looking at a bond for around $7 million. The impact on us would be around $50,000 annually, or around $100 more per end user. We have one of the lowest usage rates for sewer in the State, she said. There would probably not be an impact until 2019, she said. They have other issues. The four percent applies only to the wastewater treatment plant portion, she said.

Ms. Arthur said that the intermunicipal agreement is automatically renewable for successive five year periods with notice required by either party two years prior to expiration. The date two years prior to the expiration is tomorrow, she said. If we make it past that we will be good for another five years, she said. We have a very good relationship with Hampton, she said. Their staff helps us maintain our pump stations, she said

Peter Crawford said that previously there had been a reference to negotiations. The reference to automatic renewal is something new, he said. Lee Arthur confirmed. Mr. Crawford asked whether we thought that this was a good contract from our perspective. Ms. Arthur said that it was a phenomenal contract.

Doug Abrams made a motion to recommend $258,255. Mae Bradshaw seconded.

Shawn Crapo referred to the 4 percent and mentioned several large developments planned in Hampton.

All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$258,255 $258,255

Building Inspector, 4240-18 (215:07 elapsed)

Building Inspector Peter Rowell said that he is in his sixth year. The department produces income and typically they manage to collect enough fees from building permits to cover the budget. As of yesterday, $209,000 in fees had been collected. A good portion of my time is spent on zoning and pump out enforcement. Fifty percent of my time is spent on that, he said.

Doug Abrams asked whether Mr. Rowell was going to retire, or whether we would continue to have two Building Inspectors. Mr. Rowell said that the $116,000 is to cover two inspectors through July 1. One of the positions will then go to part-time at 24 hours per week which will be sufficient as the pump out and watershed issues will be under control by then.

Mr. Abrams asked whether the 2019 budget would be lower. Mr. Rowell confirmed.

In response to a question from Peter Crawford, Mr. Rowell said that the new inspector was already on board. This year’s budget had two full-time inspector budgeted for half of the year, he said.

Doug Abrams asked whether Mr. Rowell was looking to go part-time after the six months. Mr. Rowell said that it depended on whether the Town still wanted him.

Jaci Grote asked whether we had one and a half inspectors for this year. Mr. Rowell confirmed.

In response to questions from Peter Crawford, Mr. Rowell confirmed that the new Building Inspector had started late, but had been budgeted for half a year.

Peter Crawford said that the numbers didn’t quite make sense to him.

Town Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie said that the new Building Inspector is at a lower grade. His salary for a full year is $52,000, she said.

Ms. Grote said that we have a budget of $253,080. Ralph Hickson so moved. Mae Bradshaw seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

There were quips about the new car for Mr. Rowell and mentions that it would need to be shared with dogs and seagulls. Editor’s note: See the discussion here about the town-wide vehicle, that the Budget Committee approved 8-1.

$253,080 $253,080

Planning Board, 4191-11 (220:47 elapsed)

Planning and Zoning Administrator Kim Reed said that she had not raised her budget for many years, but this year the legal expenses tipped the budget a little bit over. Usually the applicant pays for subdivision applications, but we had some other problems that came up. I would like the professional training and the legal expense line items to be increased, Ms. Reed said. Editor’s note: The Budget Book has the former at an increase from $1200 to $1400 and the latter at an increase (under the consulting services line) from $15,000 to $18,000.

Mae Bradshaw said that she thought that Ms. Reed was getting a new title. Ms. Reed referred to an examination that she had taken in May and said that the title would change from Planning and Zoning Administrator to Planner.

Doug Abrams made a motion to approve $148,953. Ralph Hickson seconded.

Peter Crawford referred to the increase in the consulting services line from $15,000 to $18,000 and said that he thought that she had mentioned some issues with the South Road development.

Ms. Reed said that that was one of the cases, but there were others as well.

Mr. Crawford said that it seemed like this was an unusually high year and asked why it shouldn’t be down next year, rather than up.

Ms. Reed referred to another case before the Planning Board and zoning amendments that legal counsel needs to weigh in.

Jaci Grote called for a vote while Peter Crawford was making a follow-on comment. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$148,953 $148,953

Board of Adjustment, 4191-10 (224:37 elapsed)

Kim Reed started to address, saying that it was consistent with prior years. Jaci Grote interrupted, stated that the proposed budget was $13,270 and asked for a motion to recommend. Phil Winslow so moved. Ray Jarvis seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$13,270 $13,270

Suspension for lunch (225:27)

The motion to suspend for lunch carried unanimously. Whereupon the meeting was suspended until 1:30 p.m. for lunch.

The video jumps from 12:17:15 p.m. (225:52 elapsed) to 1:29:13 p.m. (225:53 elapsed)

Resumption after lunch (225:53 elapsed)

The motion to resume after lunch carried unanimously. Mae Bradshaw and Peggy Balboni were not yet present.

Conservation Commission, 4611-53 (226:05 elapsed)

Jaci Grote said that Sally King and the Conservation budget are next. She said that she was recusing herself since she is on the Conservation Commission and has input on this budget. Sally and I can discuss it with you, she said. Sally King came up and sat at the table.

Ms. Grote said that they had spent $40,871 this year, but we’re recovering $32,000 for a survey and additional work. Sally King referred to a projected total expenditure of $83,600 for the year. A lot of work is planned for next year, she said.

As Ms. Grote was speaking, Mae Bradshaw and Peggy Balboni came in and sat down.

Ms. Grote talked about various items of work being done. Ms. King said that many of the bills come in at the end of the year. She said that emphasis was being placed on surveying, which is very expensive.

Phil Winslow asked whether grant funds were available to support their activities. Sally King said that usually those are used to leverage acquisitions, but they are also using them for marsh management. It is getting harder and harder to get grant funding, she said.

Peter Crawford asked about the $31,550 that has been spent on land acquisition costs year to date. Sally King said that money had been moved from the conservation operating budget to the land acquisition fund because acquisition money is difficult to get at and costly. She also referred to the wetland next to the Surf Shack on Route 1A by Wallis Rd. Mr. Crawford said that he thought that that property cost about $10,000 and had closed some months ago, even last year. Ms. King said that she did not recall the price and said that she thought it had closed this year. Editor’s note: According to the Town’s GIS system, that parcel, tax map 19.4, lot 56, was sold to the Town for $13,400 on October 13, 2016 (Rockingham County Registry of Deeds book 5762, page 601). Mr. Crawford referred to the October meeting figures not having reflecting this transaction yet. Ms. King referred to another recent acquisition. Mr. Crawford said that he thought that that was free. Ms. King confirmed.

Jaci Grote explained said that now, when a piece of property is purchased, the bond must be issued for a specific acquisition. Sally King said that it is expensive to use bonds. Town Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie confirmed, saying that the cost of bond counsel related to the purchase of the Rand property was over $9000.

Jaci Grote said that the money could be used for small acquisitions. We used this money to pay for “it.” Editor’s note: If she is referring to the parcel next to the Surf Shack, that does not appear to be the case, as that transaction closed in 2016.

Ms. Grote talked about work that had been done at Marden Woods. She said that there has been no survey of that property. Ms. King said that historically a survey was not needed to acquire properties, however, with development pressures it is a good idea to know exactly where the boundaries are.

Doug Abrams asked whether it was true that Conservation never sells land, but only buys it. That was confirmed. Sally King also said that they try to have easement holders as well. Editor’s note: These are typically conservation easements held by a different entity than the Town, that prevent the Town, or any subsequent owner, from using the property other than for limited agricultural uses or open space.

There was discussion about Conservation doing a swap with the Outer Marker. Ms. King said that that was devoted to Recreation.

Doug Abrams asked how much land Conservation owned. Mae Bradshaw referred to the CIP Plan. Editor’s note: At the back of the most recent CIP Plan is a list of properties acquired, starting in the mid-2000s. Sally King said that it was more than 200 acres. Peter Crawford said that the list includes only properties acquired in the last 10-15 years, and held up a document.

There was discussion about devoting certain land to dog walking. Doug Abrams said that he knows a number of people from Portsmouth who walk their dogs in Rye. We are a target, he said. There are dogs on our properties all of the time as they are not leashed, he said.

Jaci Grote said that they wanted the Budget Committee to…recommend.

Doug Abrams interrupted after Ms. Grote said “to” and moved to recommend the $90,000 budget. Shawn Crapo seconded.

Peter Crawford said that he was going to vote for the motion, but is somewhat concerned that so much is being encumbered and contracted for at the end of the year. Sally King interrupted and said that they were asked to do that. Mr. Crawford said that he knew that, but stated also that their budget had not been spent and they were afraid that it was going to be cut. Ms. King said that that was not the only reason. She referred to Charlie Moreno who was backed up and unable to do the work earlier. Mr. Crawford said that the quality of result might not be there due to rushing at the end to get things done.

Shawn Crapo asked whether an encumbrance is currently reflected. That was confirmed. He referred to invoices yet to come that might amount to $30,000.

Peter Crawford said that there is another $43,000 that they are planning on contracting for and encumbering by the end of the year. Sally King and Jaci Grote agreed. Mr. Crawford said that that is what is taking the $40,871 spent to date to $83,000. Sally King referred to the RCCD, which used to do monitoring for free, but must now be paid.

Phil Winslow asked whether surveys were now being done prior to acquisitions. Sally King confirmed and referred to the “a through q.” Editor’s note: That is a procedure put in place by the Board of Selectmen around the time that the 2014 Conservation bond of $3 million was approved.

Jaci Grote spoke about the properties having been divided up, as to responsibility, for the various properties.

Vice Chairman Peggy Balboni called for a vote. All were in favor, except Jaci Grote, who abstained. Vote: 8-0-1, including Shawn Crapo voting in favor.

$90,000 $90,000

Library, 4550-58 (244:55 elapsed)

There was brief discussion about the Library budget. It was revealed that the Selectmen had not yet approved it.

$661,583 not considered

Town Clerk, 4140-13 (245:33 elapsed)

Town Clerk/Tax Collector Donna Decotis came in and sat at the table. Jaci Grote spoke about an increase in the 2017 budget of $7100 to $7400 for 2018. Ms. Decotis referred to an increase in the dog tax from $2200 to $2500. She said that there are a few more dogs in town.

Mae Bradshaw moved approval of the $7,400. Doug Abrams seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$7,400 $7,400

Tax Collector, 4150-14 (247:24 elapsed)

Donna Decotis addressed. Jaci Grote referred to a figure of $227,653, slightly less what had been requested of $232,153. Editor’s note: The former number is the Selectmen’s recommendation.

Doug Abrams made a motion for $227,653. Shawn Crapo seconded.

Mae Bradshaw asked about the Selectmen taking umbrage at the office supplies and postage. Ms. Decotis said that it was because she had not used it in previous years. In 2016 there were four elections, there are three elections in 2018.

Mr. Crawford said that there would not be a Presidential election this coming year, which attracts a lot of voters.

All were in favor of the motion.

$232,153 $227,653

Elections, 4140-03 (249:32 elapsed)

Donna Decotis addressed and confirmed that there would be three elections in 2018. Doug Abrams moved $23,295. Mae Bradshaw seconded.

Peter Crawford asked whether we were dropping from four elections in 2016 to three elections in 2018. Ms. Decotis confirmed. He asked whether Accuvote coding applied only to the Town elections. Ms. Decotis confirmed. Mr. Crawford said there wouldn’t be any reduction expected there. The wages are up from $4000 in 2016 to $4300 in 2018, while there are only going to be three elections rather than four, he said. He asked whether that shouldn’t be down. Ms. Decotis referred to the minimum wage increasing. Mr. Crawford said that a major election requiring a lot of people is being eliminated and ask whether there was room to reduce the number. Ms. Decotis said that you can never tell with an election. Doug Abrams said that three times the 2017 actual figure is still $3000, so there wouldn’t be that much savings. Mr. Crawford agreed that it was a small number.

All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$23,295 $23,295

Donna Decotis summarized the various election officials. Last year, Moderator Bob Eaton had new people, which he called “new eyes,” come in at the end to make sure that all of the numbers were correct.

Mae Bradshaw asked whether the Selectmen were paid for being at the election. The response was no. Peter Crawford said that that was part of their $4000 a year in compensation.

Historic District, 4589-54 (254:14 elapsed)

Mae Bradshaw addressed, saying the budget was the same as the prior year’s budget brought by the retiring Phil Winslow. There will be more meetings as these will be increased to quarterly. Shawn Crapo asked whether meetings would be scheduled when property owners needed a hearing, or whether they would have to wait for the quarterly meeting. Ms. Bradshaw said that the former would be true.

Without waiting to see if there was any further discussion by other members, immediately following the exchange between Ms. Bradshaw and Mr. Crapo, Jaci Grote asked whether she could have a motion for the $1000. She called for a vote without asking whether there was any further discussion.

All were in favor, except Mae Bradshaw, who abstained. Vote: 8-0-1, including Shawn Crapo voting in favor.

$1,000 $1,000

Heritage Commission, 4590-57 (256:27 elapsed)

Mae Bradshaw addressed. The $300 difference is the Memorial Day ceremony, she said.

Shawn Crapo moved $4100. Phil Winslow seconded.

Jaci Grote called for a vote.

Ray Jarvis asked whether the most important column shouldn’t be the 2016 actual, as that is the only accurate actual figure. What is budgeted may or may not be closely related to what is actually spent. The comparison should be based on the last two columns compared to the 2016 actual, he said. Editor’s note: These are the 2018 Department Request and the 2018 Selectmen’s Recommendation. Doug Abrams said that that is his opinion, but he likes to see where the budget came in. Mae Bradshaw said that one of the problems is the encumbrances that show up in November and December. Town Finance Director Cyndi Gillespie said that, in the front of the book there are more figures. Editor’s note: There are departmental totals of budget and actual figures back to 2012 in the front of the Budget Book.

All were in favor, except Mae Bradshaw, who abstained. Vote: 8-0-1, including Shawn Crapo voting in favor.

$4,100 $4,100

Energy Committee, 4620-46 (260:48 elapsed)

Jaci Grote spoke about their writeup and the Energize 360 program. She said that she would like someone on the Board to make a motion to approve the $600. Mae Bradshaw moved that the $600 be recommended. Phil Winslow seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$ 600 $ 600

Executive Office, 4130-01 (262:92 elapsed)

Town Administrator Magnant said that the budget had been “pretty much” level funded. Editor’s note: The Selectmen’s stipend line was increased $150 from $12,450 to $12,600. Mae Bradshaw moved approval of $229,170. Phil Winslow seconded. Peter Crawford said that it was actually down. Before he could finish speaking Jaci Grote said “any discussion.” Ray Jarvis indicated that he had not found the section. Jaci Grote impatiently said “It’s the very first one. It’s the very first one. The very first tab.” Mr. Jarvis said that he wanted to refer to the applicable page prior to the vote.

Without asking whether there was any discussion, and while Ray Jarvis was still flipping through his binder to find the appropriate page, Jaci Grote called for a vote. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$229,170 $229,170

Peter Crawford ask about the salary study that Ms. Gillespie had given him the prior day. He said that it looked like there were $54,000 in bracket change increases recommended for the Town employees. Ms. Gillespie said that that was in the first study, but the amendment took those out. Mr. Crawford asked whether the entire budget was constructed with two percent raises for everybody. Ms. Gillespie confirmed.

Mr. Crawford asked whether it was true that people who are at the low end of the salary range get two percent, as well as those who are above the high end. He said that he noticed that there were some people at 110 percent and even one at 119. Ms. Gillespie confirmed. Mr. Crawford said that the study was done to look at all of the brackets and where people are relative to the other towns. He said that in a future year it might be appropriate to consider whether two percent should apply to everyone. If everyone is given two percent, discrepancies are never corrected unless someone leaves and is replaced by someone else, he said.

Mr. Crawford said that, if someone is at the low end of the range, the Town might be in danger of losing that person and the person should get more of an increase. Mr. Crawford started to make a statement about someone who is above their range being above the market.

Town Administrator Magnant interrupted and said that it was a good point and it is a tool for the Town to use moving forward.

Mr. Crawford said that, if nothing is done, this money has been wasted. We’re doing a study but no action is being taken based on it, he said. Mr. Magnant said that nobody is saying that nothing is going to be done. It is a tool going forward, he said.

Jaci Grote pointed out that it may be a confirmation.

Mr. Magnant said that the Town had not done a study for a number of years. Ms. Gillespie said 2001. We were surprised that we weren’t further off, he said. The town has been keeping up with cost of living increases, he said.

Shawn Crapo referred to union contract restrictions. Mr. Magnant acknowledged that union employees cannot be given a higher raise than the contract provides. Ms. Gillespie said that the study was strictly for non-union employees.

Doug Abrams pointed out that years ago, firefighters and police officers were being lost left and right. Shawn Crapo agreed, saying that they were being put through the Academy and then getting scooped. Mr. Abrams said that the Budget Committee made a recommendation that the Selectmen do a wage comparison. When they came back, one of them had already been implemented, which was that of the Town Administrator, who got a $8000 a year increase because he realized that he had been hired at too low a wage.

Assessing, 4150-20 (268:00 elapsed)

Jaci Grote said that the request was for $169,670.

Mae Bradshaw said that it appeared that the wages had gone up way more than two percent. Jaci Grote explained that most of the figures had not changed much.

Doug Abrams asked whether the vacation buy back had been to every eligible employee. Ms. Gillespie said that the department heads figure out who has enough vacation to use the buy back, and there are some people who always take the time off rather than use the buy back. In response to a question from Mr. Abrams, Ms. Gillespie said that the money had been found in other budget line items.

Ralph Hickson said that some places have a maximum amount of vacation that can be accumulated before it is lost. Ms. Gillespie said that the Town does not have such a policy, however, there is a maximum amount of sick time that can be accumulated for employees that arrived after a point about three years ago.

Jaci Grote said that she was waiting for a motion for the $169,670. Ralph Hickson so moved. Phil Winslow seconded.

Shawn Crapo asked about the assessing services. Ms. Gillespie said that that is the contract for everyday work with MRI. The revaluation was in the Capital Outlay line. This is the third year of the contract, she said. Mr. Magnant said that this was the last year.

In response to a question from Jaci Grote, Ms. Gillespie said that the Town must have assessing services, whether it is performed by an employee or a contractor. It is working out really well having it done by a contractor, she said.

Peter Crawford asked whether he wanted to stay. Ms. Gillespie said that he would stay. It is a firm, she said.

Shawn Crapo said that they get paid whether they are accurate or not.

Jaci Grote called for a vote without asking whether there was any further discussion. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$169,670 $169,670

Finance, 4150-21 (274:04 elapsed)

Jaci Grote said that they are asking for $186,367, which is essentially the same as the prior year. Doug Abrams made a motion to approve the requested budget. Ralph Hickson seconded.

Mae Bradshaw asked whether they were not getting the two percent. Ms. Gillespie said that the two percent is in there, but the vacation buy back has been broken out this year.

Without asking whether there was any further discussion, Jaci Grote called for a vote. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$186,367 $186,367

Legal, 4153-04 (274:58 elapsed)

Jaci Grote said that the request was for $108,000 compared to $109,600 this year. She asked whether this was the Town Attorney. Ms. Gillespie confirmed. Editor’s note: That included $9600 in encumbrances. The actual budget was $100,000.

Doug Abrams asked whether there was a large, lurking liability. Mae Bradshaw said yes, for the ZBA, or was it the Planning Board. Shawn Crapo said that it was combined. Editor’s note: This is an apparent reference to the proposed South Road development, which was denied in its entirety. The developer and property owners whose land would have been developed (including Selectman Jenness), have sued to overturn ZBA and Planning Board decisions that went against them. Click here for more information.

Mr. Crawford asked what the big overrun was in 2016. Ms. Gillespie said that that was a settlement, not an overrun. The contingency fund offsets it, she said. Editor’s note: The actual 2016 figure for the Legal Services line item is $138,197 compared to $80,000 budgeted.

Shawn Crapo had a question about the perambulation. Mr. Magnant said that, by law, that is still required. He said that he does not know how many towns still do a perambulation. Ms. Gillespie spoke about a possible future change to the law, but said that she has not seen anything about that yet.

Doug Abrams moved the bottom line of $108,000. Ray Jarvis seconded. All were in favor except Peter Crawford voted against. Vote: 8-1, Shawn Crapo voting in favor.

$108,000 $108,000

Doug Abrams asked Mr. Crawford whether he thought the Town Attorney should retire. Mr. Crawford said that he did not think the Town was being well-served by him.

Ray Jarvis asked why.

Peter Crawford said that he would be happy to provide an example. He referred to the acquisition of the property at the Transfer Station which had resulted in a suit. It was an issue of the deed having been defective years and years ago. Rather than call up the owner that would have ended up with the title, if in fact the title was defective, he just filed suit, and I think $30,000 was spent. Editor’s note: Page 36 of the 2016 Town Annual Report shows $18,568.74 for “DPW Site – Quiet Title.” We got an inaccurate story at the Town Meeting from the Town Attorney as to the legality of all of this and a representation that the appraisal supported the value that we paid, which it didn’t, he said. Mr. Crawford said that he could go on and on. Editor’s note: The appraisal states that “[i]t is the appraiser’s opinion that finding a buyer at any price for the subject as a residential house lot ‘as is’ would be very unlikely,” owing to the collection of water on the site and other factors. The appraisal value of $160,000 referred to by Attorney Donovan at the 2017 Deliberative Session is based on an assumed light industrial use that only the Town would be able to take advantage of (the property is in the Single Residence District, but municipal uses are permitted by special exception. Rye Zoning Ordinance 203.2 D. This is not an appraisal based on fair market value, but rather on circular reasoning. Fair market value is based on a willing buyer and a willing seller, not the value to the seller. The Town Attorney also asserted at the 2017 Deliberative Session that the use of a paper accounting entry, the litigation reserve, that he acknowledged was established by the auditors after consultation with him, was completely legal. In fact RSA 32:8 prohibits, with certain exceptions not applicable here, the expenditure of money in excess of what was appropriated by voters. A paper accounting entry is not an appropriation.

Mae Bradshaw said that she did not think that the Board had any protection from slander. Jaci Grote interrupted and spoke over Ms. Bradshaw, saying, “I, you know, I, let’s just” Mae Bradshaw then finished speaking. Mr. Crawford said that truth is an absolute defense to an action for slander. Ms. Bradshaw agreed that demonstrable truth is a defense. Jaci Grote interrupted again, speaking over Mae Bradshaw, saying “can we just, I would rather, I want to move on, please.”

Ralph Hickson asked whether there was a contract with the Town Attorney. Mr. Magnant said that he was not. He is paid an hourly rate. Doug Abrams said that he had been doing work for the town as long as he could remember.

Town Hall building 4194-07 (279:18 elapsed)

Jaci Grote said that $21,260 is being sought.

Mae Bradshaw asked how a 200 year old building could be maintained for $7500 per year. Jaci Grote said that that was the maintenance line item. Ms. Bradshaw said that that is clearly not adequate. My house cannot be maintained for that, she said. “Why do we continue to live this fantasy world, every year, year after year, not maintaining a government building that we have stewardship for. I just don’t get it.”

Shawn Crapo said that it should be torn down and replaced. Ms. Bradshaw said that that is his opinion, but in the meantime it needs to be maintained.

Peter Crawford agreed, saying that more is being spent on the Public Safety Building, which is ten years old.

Doug Abrams made a recommendation to recommend $21,260. Ralph Hickson seconded. All were in favor except Mae Bradshaw and Peter Crawford were opposed. Vote: 7-2, Shawn Crapo voting in favor.

Doug Abrams referred to a pending resolution of Town Hall, saying he understood the point and did not disagree with it. Mae Bradshaw said that the resolution has been going on for six years and it hasn’t been resolved yet. She asked whether it should be allowed to fall down in the meantime. Mr. Abrams referred to throwing good money after bad and fixing something that may be changed or modified within a period of six months to a year after that.

Pointing to Cyndi Gillespie, Mae Bradshaw said that she is in charge of catching the mice. Pointing to Michael Magnant, Mae Bradshaw that that he is charge of keeping the birds from flying through people’s hair while they are in here. That is not appropriate. Mr. Magnant said that he does most of the rodent control.

Peggy Balboni expressed hope that the School Use Feasibility Committee report would help move things forward. At least there was a resolution regarding use of the school building, she said.

Shawn Crapo said that he hoped that the Town’s taxpayers that put additions on those schools, at great efforts over the years, are not going to cause one of those buildings not to be a school any more, which would be short-sighted. We have an aging town at this point, but people are going to die, and people are going to move in, he said. Peggy Balboni said that the recommendation of the committee is that it is not suitable to lose the school building. She said that what she is saying is at least that won’t be on the table any more. Peter Crawford said that he was not sure that there was buy in based on the results of the Committee. Peggy Balboni said that we do not know what is going to happen.

Jaci Grote interrupted and read the name and account number of the next item.

$21,260 $21,260

Cemetery, 4195-25 (282:00 elapsed)

Jaci Grote referred to a budget of $115,006.

Mae Bradshaw asked why there is no maintenance, even though they have buildings. Cyndi Gillespie explained that the only thing that the Town pays is the salaries and benefits for the employees and the vehicle as they get their fuel from Public Works. We budget them, I do their payments for those items and I bill them quarterly and they pay me back, she said. They take care of their own maintenance, she said.

Ralph Hickson noted the doubling of seasonal wages. Ms. Gillespie said that the seasonal employee is being used later in the year and the amount that he has used has been increasing.

Jaci Grote asked whether there was a motion for $115,006. Doug Abrams so moved. Mae Bradshaw seconded. Jaci Grote called for a vote without asking whether there was any discussion. Phil Winslow tried to interrupt. Jaci Grote said “discussion.” Phil Winslow asked about the reserve or trust fund. Ms. Gillespie said that the bookkeeper for the trust fund is Jane Ireland and she has all of that information.

Again without asking whether there was any further discussion, Jaci Grote called for a vote. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$115,006 $115,006

Insurance, 4196-12 (285:10 elapsed)

Jaci Grote noted a reduction from $194,663 in 2017 to $165,027 requested for 2018. She asked whether the actual expenditure this year is what would be spent next year.

Town Finance Director said that these are actual numbers from Primex, which provides liability insurance. The biggest piece that is no longer present is the $20,000 for reimbursing employees for their deductibles. That program has gone away, she said.

Peter Crawford asked whether that reduction was part of the 12.1 percent. Ms. Gillespie said that it was in addition to that. Editor’s note: Ms. Gillespie had, earlier in the meeting, noted a 12.1 percent reduction in health insurance costs.

Mae Bradshaw moved approval of the $165,027. Shawn Crapo seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$165,027 $165,027

Regional Associations, 4197-22 (286:12 elapsed)

Jaci Grote referred to an increase from $54,871 to $56,371.

Ms. Gillespie said that the regional book is on the table if anyone wanted to look at it after the meeting.

Peter Crawford said that he had always heard that the warrant article came in for the first year. Ms. Gillespie confirmed. Mr. Crawford said that he understood that it then continued. Looking at a page, he said that this was the first that he had realized that amounts could actually increase. Editor’s note: The Budget Book includes a list of three agencies with increases, for a total increase of $1500. Ms. Gillespie said that a request for an increase must be sent in. Mr. Crawford asked what would keep someone from starting at $200 and then increasing it later. Ms. Gillespie said that Janice Ireland gets the requests in. I review them and find out the reason for the increase, which may be that they are serving more Rye residents or something like that. We then take that to the Board of Selectmen. There have been times that the Selectmen or the Budget Committee have said no, she said.

Doug Abrams said that fifteen years earlier he had voted not to recommend the budget and got lambasted by Joe. Editor’s note: This is an apparent reference to former Selectman Joe Mills. There were probably six organizations that did not exist. This was over $80,000 at that time. A lot of it was never expended. In my accusation, and I’m not saying that it was true, the Selectmen used the account as a slush fund to cover overages in other areas, he said.

Mr. Crawford said that he did not have a problem with the small amount, but was surprised. As long as you look at it and document this every year that’s OK, he said.

Peter Crawford made a motion to recommend $56,371. Ray Jarvis seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$56,371 $56,371

General Government, 4199-26 (290:35 elapsed)

Jaci Grote said that the request is for $71,700. Mae Bradshaw so moved. Ray Jarvis seconded. Jaci Grote called for discussion. There was none. All were in favor.

Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$71,700 $71,700

Health Officer, 4411-37 (291:15 elapsed)

Peter Crawford moved to approve. Doug Abrams seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$5,485 $5,485

Direct Assistance, 4442-44 (291:42 elapsed)

Jaci Grote said that she needed a motion to recommend $40,000. Doug Abrams so moved. Phil Winslow seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$40,000 $40,000

Doug Abrams said that he did not think that Jaci Grote should ask for a motion to recommend as she is supposed to be unbiased. Ms. Grote apologized.

Parsonage, Fund 5 (292:30 elapsed)

Jaci Grote said that the request was for $11,917.

Peter Crawford asked whether the contract was up at the beginning of 2019. Ms. Gillespie confirmed.

Doug Abrams asked whether there was revenue on this as well. She said that a couple of years ago we voted to put all of the revenues towards maintenance. There is currently a fund balance of $24,256, which is where the money will come from. The revenue and budgeted numbers are the same as we are zeroing it out. The revenue is $11,771.69. Each year it is increased a certain amount. If the tax is higher we will go with that number, otherwise the rent number is used, she said. Doug Abrams asked how tax could be charged to a non-profit. Peter Crawford said that the Town owns the building. Ms. Gillespie explained how the rental price was computed based on what the tax would have been.

Ralph Hickson asked why there were no actual figures. Ms. Gillespie said that nothing had been spent on the building.

Doug made a motion to recommend $11,917. Shawn Crapo seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

$11,917 $11,917

Debt service, 4711-67, 4721-67, 4723-67, 4790-67 (296:50 elapsed)

Peter Crawford said that we have no choice. The only question is whether Cyndi reviewed it all to make sure that it was right. Ms. Gillespie confirmed, saying that she had the actual amortization schedule.

Doug Abrams asked whether older bonds could be refinanced at a lower rate. Ms. Gillespie said that it depends. If purchased through the bond bank that cannot be done as they take a group of bonds and they sell them. However, if we borrowed from a bank, we could do so, she said.

Mae Bradshaw asked what the current interest rate is. Ms. Gillespie said that she had just gotten a quote from TD Bank at 2.4 to 3 percent. They expect an increase in January. In response to a question from Phil Winslow she said that rate is for a 10 year bond.

Peter Crawford noted that six month t-bills are up to 1.4 percent. He said that it is not an issue for this, but he is still not convinced that the town is getting as much interest as it should. He said that he would take it offline.

Phil Winslow made a motion for that amount. Mae Winslow seconded. All were in favor. Vote: 9-0, including Shawn Crapo.

Ralph Hickson asked about the difference between the departmental request and the Selectmen’s recommendation numbers. Ms. Gillespie explained how the Selectmen had reduced both the BANS and the TANS to $100. Neither have ever been used, she said. Peter Crawford said that they could both be taken to $1 and still be OK. Ms. Gillespie agreed, saying that “he” would probably do that next year. Shawn Crapo asked whether “he” would, or whether the Selectmen’s vote would. Ms. Gillespie agreed with the latter. Editor’s note: Although Selectman Musselman has in the past been the one reducing these figures, Mr. Crapo is correct. The Selectmen may act individually, but only through a vote of a majority of the Board of Selectmen.

$367,396 $367,396

Revenues (299:25 elapsed)

Jaci Grote asked whether there was a need to review Fund 1, the revenues. Ms. Gillespie said that it was in the book only for reference.

Ms. Gillespie said that it was anticipated that there would be $1.448 million in vehicle registrations. Last year at this time there was $1.182 million and this year we have $1.238 million. So we’re pretty much on target with that. Building permits were budgeted at $275,000. Last year at this time we were at $210,000. Peter Rowell said that we are currently at $208,000. The figure in here is for November 1, she said. She said the document reflects activity through October 31.

Peter Crawford asked whether adding 20 percent would be reasonable. Ms. Gillespie confirmed.

Ms. Gillespie said that, but for the accounting adjustment, the ambulance revenue would be up.

Jaci Grote asked about the $40,000 in Municipal Agent Fees. Ms. Gillespie said that, while that was the estimate, it will come in lower than that.

Ray Jarvis asked what the parentheses mean. She explained that the parentheses indicate an excess over what was budgeted. In August an updated report on revenues is sent to the State. I just did another estimate yesterday, she said. In response to a question from Shawn Crapo, Ms. Gillespie acknowledged that the 357 percent at the bottom of the page is inaccurate as the first five lines are taxes that cannot be estimated.

Ms. Gillespie said that all but about $55,000 of the first tax bill had been collected.

Doug Abrams asked whether the plan where the Town pays the deductibles is gone. Ms. Gillespie confirmed and said that it ended in 2016, but $20,000 was budgeted in 2017 to phase it out. The total savings with the 12.1 percent reduction and the elimination of the $20,000 is about $175,000, Ms. Gillespie said.

Peter Crawford asked what differences were expected for next year. He said that most of the money is in vehicle registrations, building permits and highway grant funds.

Doug Abrams said that the building permits depend on the economy and she cannot do a forecast for the next 12 months.

Peter Crawford said that ultimately the estimates must be made, because the information is required for Town Meeting.

Ms. Gillespie said “absolutely.” She said that she has a 30 column spreadsheet that she does every year that includes every line item of revenue. It does a suggested projection, but then my own thinking is applied to that. I go through that exercise each year in March, and again in August, she said.

Mr. Crawford asked whether she knew of any big increases or decreases. Ms. Gillespie said that she did not know of any.

Peter Crawford said that, when the school does their budget, they have everything mapped out including the budget, the revenues and what is going to happen to the tax rate. They have a lot less in terms of revenues, but we don’t have that sort of information, which would be very helpful. Ms. Gillespie referred to the MS-7, which has that information, including the tax implications. Mr. Crawford said that it comes a little later. The School District has it up front, he said.

Phil Winslow said that the revenue from the Transfer Center is about $70,000, but that he doesn’t see the expense. We have to pay these people to haul the stuff, he said. He asked whether it is elsewhere in the budget. Ms. Gillespie said that it is in the tipping fees line of the Transfer Center budget.

Doug Abrams said that Ms. Gillespie had been very well prepared.

Future meetings and minutes (313:00 elapsed)

Jaci Grote referred to the next meeting, 6:30 p.m at the school on December 13. The next night we will be here at 6:30 p.m. for the Town the meeting, she said. Peter Crawford will send out a reminder, she said.

Peter Crawford said that he had gone through the minutes of the last meeting and that there are a lot of mistakes. Peggy Balboni said that it was hard for the transcriptionist to hear as she had to work off the video. Ms. Grote said that they would be discussed at the end of the work session on the 14^th.

Peter Crawford said that he would revise it and do a redline. I don’t think we want to sit through all of the corrections, he said. Mr. Magnant confirmed that he thought that the document could be sent out as long as there was no discussion prior to the meeting. It was agreed that Mr. Crawford would do that.

There was brief discussion about the number from the revaluation exceeding $2.2 billion.

Adjournment (316:00 elapsed)

Whereupon the meeting adjourned at approximately 3:00 p.m.